Lg Washing Machine: Loud Noise On Wash/rinse

[TippyWhippet]

Hello there,

Having called the repairers out twice already to be told the grinding noise coming from my LG (front loading Direct Drive F1247TD5 washing machine) was 'user-error' (erm ?!?!) I decided to take a look myself.

• A low pitch, very loud, intermittent grinding noise (please hear attached).
• The noise sounds only during wash and rinse cycles
• Some days (rare) there is no sound, others and the noise is constant.

The machine is 3 years old & I live alone

WHAT HAVE I ALREADY TRIED?

• Checked pump filter (no blockage),
• Checked rotating part inside the pump is still 'firm', no wobbling and snaps back when pushed.
• Both pumps clean/clear of debris.
• Removed the sump hose, checked all pipes for blockages,
• I wasn't able to find anything behind the drum, well anything that would have made its way down to the sump anyway.
• Checked the inner drum for evident obstructions in any holes
• Checked the inner drum for movement and there appears to be no play/movement up/down or side/side
• I bought the service manual online and put it through test programmes. I wasn't able to get the machine to recreate the noise within any of the tests though unfortunately

WHAT I HAVENT YET TRIED

• I have not attempted to separate inner and outer drum as yet
  • I tried to remove the rear machine bolt in an attempt to check the bearings. Videos show this to be relatively easy once you've got the bolt eased off, then it's easy turning.
  • But the only way I could get the bolt to turn was by hitting the socket arm very very hard with a mallet. Not just once to loosen it up. But over and over again to make it move at all.
  • I stopped after several 'whacks' as I was too worried about damaging it long term.
• And thus I haven't accessed the bearings yet.

What I have done towards possible solution so far

• I have ordered 2 x new pumps, but am loathed to try them in case that is not the problem.

- I can't really afford to waste £50 :-(

Any help would be greatly appreciated

Thank you, and with very best wishes from, Miss TippyWhippet

 

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

I can't understand how 2 repairers can't fix this unless it's intermittent and they couldn't hear it. Does it only make the noise when the drum is turning? It sounds a little like the motor catching on the casing or something. It's definitely something that shouldn't be there and something vibrating or catching on something. If it is to do with the motor catching on something it may vary from not doing it, to doing it a lot depending entirely on what load is in at the time with heavy loads making it more likely.

If it has a circulation pump running during the wash and this is causing the noise it should be present even when the drum stops rotating.

I have general but comprehensive advice about trying to find the cause of a noisy washing machine

[TippyWhippet]

Thank you for your reply Andy. The noise is only there when the drum is turning. It is silent when it's not. I ran an empty cycle last night and it made the noise then too. What could the pump be catching on, should I be looking for something? In terms of external/unwanted debris or anything 'that shouldn't be in there' I couldn't find anything at all. The noise isn't there when the machine is first turning and filling up with water. Is there anything else you could suggest I could try?

[edhorwood]

With the speed of the sound and it changing frequency so dramatically and quickly, it doesn't sound like rubbing to me. The first time I heard it, it sounded electrical, like a buzzing transformer or something. Maybe this will throw a new light into someones mind?

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

It's a weird sound, it's almost like a buzzer, in a way it sounds like a solenoid switching on and off at high speed. It's so loud I'm surprised its source can't be pinpointed. It sounds very familiar in a strange way, I've heard noises like that when a fan is loose on a shaft but the motor isn't turning fast enough on wash and spin to cause such a noise.

[TippyWhippet]

I'm pretty pretty sure that the noise is coming from the pump in the front bottom right hand corner of the machine ....

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

It must have a circulation pump then which pumps water into the drum on top of the laundry so it can use less water. I'd have expected it to run continuously on wash and therefore make the noise even when the drum stops revolving. If it's coming from there it may have a dry bearing or loose fan as I described earlier. If it's under guarantee get them back and show them to recording. If not it needs removing and investigating, probably replacing.

[TippyWhippet]

Thank you so much for everyone's input. I'm so grateful.

Would the general consensus be to replace the drain/circulation pump? I believe they are the same thing on this machine?

There are 2 of these Pump&model=F1247TD5&path=66991,111341:79178 that attach to the outside of this assembly ]Pump&model=F1247TD5

Would you advise that I replace both pumps? Could I try one, if problem not solved, try the other one?!?!

Oh - and the noise is definitely coming from the pump area, definitely not the solenoid

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

If there is a circulation pump which runs when the washer is on wash it should be sold as a circulation pump not a drain pump. Unfortunately I don't know if yours has a circulation pump or not. If you can see the pump making the noise and presumably it's not the one at the bottom of the drain hose then you need to try and get one of those if you are going to gamble on replacing it. 

I'm suspecting it doesn't have a circulation pump because I can't find any listed for that model. If by any chance it is the main drain pump making the noise I would get an engineer in. That pump doesn't run during wash, which is the time you say the noise happens.

[edhorwood]

could be a pump, they have magnets around them. Still sounds like a 50hz thing to me. If the core of the motor is broke, it could be stuck to the magnets and vibrating when power is applied.

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

Yes edd it's definitely something switching on and off extremely fast like a buzzer or a solenoid or relay, or maybe inside the pump. It can't be the drain pump though as that's not on during wash.

The sound has gone, is it something on the forum or have you removed it TippyWhippet?

[edhorwood]

sorry, I meant if it had a circulation pump.

Would it be worth disconnecting the wires to the pump to see if the noise stops?

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

sorry, I meant if it had a circulation pump.

Would it be worth disconnecting the wires to the pump to see if the noise stops?

That would be one way of doing it edd.

[peteb]

I had this exact same problem with the same model of washing machine, and after seeing this post yesterday, I decided to investigate.

This machine has a drain pump and a circulation pump which sit either side of the pump housing, but the pumps are identical.

The machine only made a grinding noise during wash, not draining, so I was pretty sure it was the circulation side that was the issue. After removing it and testing it, it worked flawlessly, but it was pretty clear that the black pipe running to the top of the rubber seal on the drum was blocked (I couldn't blow through it). We live in a very hard water area, and the pipe is quite narrow and was blocked with scale. After squeezing it to break the scale up, and blowing as much as possible out, it became clear, and after reassembling it, no more grinding!

[Natally]

Peteb,

Could you please explain which pump is which and how did you access it ?

Many thanks.

[Natally]

Answering my own question for the benefits of others...

From other forums, others have found that the problem is indeed due to the re circulation pump or the hose.

The machines have 2 identical pumps and it looks like the one on the left is the recirc pumps.

Lots of helpful on-line videos about how to take the machine apart.

[peteb]

There are definitely two pumps on this machine, and the circulation pump is definitely the same model as the drainage pump - they had exactly the same model number.

It's straightforward to tell which pump is which as one has a smaller black hose going towards the top of the machine (the circulation pump) and the other has the grey wider hose (the drainage pump). On the picture of the pump housing edd linked above, at the left is the connector for the bellows, on the right is the access to the filter from the front of the machine, on top is where the circulation pump is housed, and on the bottom is where the drainage pump is housed.

I found a Youtube video for taking a similar LG machine apart, but there were vital differences with the F1247TD5 - in particular, I found (after dismantling most of the front panel) that I needed to only remove the panel at the bottom under the door. Other LG machines have a single panel covering the whole of the front. Also, I needed to unscrew the electronics box which is situated in a white box at bottom left and move it out of the way to access the pumps.

Pete.

[Natally]

Thanks a lot for the answer !

This morning, we actually took the whole thing apart and even removed the block with the 2 pumps. You are right, once you see the re-circulation hose, it is obvious which pump is which. The hose was clean and we could not see anything wrong with the pump either, so we just put it all back together.

Will have to wait for the next time the grinding noise occurs...

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

Intermittent grinding noises can be caused by a small obstruction, a coin, button or small piece of plastic inside the machine. Anything relatively light and especially made of plastic which floats can get sucked into the pump, make a loud grinding noise but then get tossed back out. It can repeatedly get sucked in and spat out or even pass through the circulation pump and disappear for a while. If this is by any chance happening (and it's only a possibility not a diagnosis) they can be difficult to locate. This is because if you lay the machine down or tip it over the foreign body can just float off somewhere and be no where near the pump.

The other problem is that if you wait for the noise to occur and quickly turn off the machine to try and catch it then the machine is full of water. If you suspect this is the cause you need to wait for the noise (not easy) and turn it off straight away, then drain the machine manually by lowering the drain hose into a bowl and then remove the hose to the pump(s) and if necessary the pump(s) to see if anything is there.