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  1. 2 points
    Many thanks for your reply, Andy. The problem has been resolved itself now without the need for an engineer's visit. The temperature in the kitchen is cold at 14 degrees. We have run three more 90 degree washes with the load being fuller each time and have observed the steam and condensation produced being less each time. As mentioned previously the apparent problem was initially when the installation engineer telling us to run a cleaning 90 degree wash on an empty load which produced considerable amounts of steam and condensate. Running a full load at 90 degrees still does result in much less steam being produced with a few drops of condensation from the bottom of the soap drawer. I think we can live with this. Thanks again for all your help. William
  2. 2 points
    Thank you. I have rather a lot of laundry to do so can now get stuck in
  3. 2 points
    Yes. It will just heat it up as needed. If it’s a hot and cold fill washing machine then as long as water is connected and able to go into the hot water hose and valve it doesn’t matter if it’s hot or cold.
  4. 1 point
    If there is no space in the drum the laundry will just turn around in one big lump and have nowhere to fall and agitate when the drum revolves. That will impact wash efficiency and can even trap detergent in folds of the laundry. Having said that, some items of laundry will shrink when wet which can create some space. A heavy load should not trip the rcd. If it did, it should do it on the wash cycle. The heaviest strain on the motor is when the drum is full of water and it's trying to turn the drum on wash and rinse. Once on spin it's no where near as much strain as all the water has gone out and it's just turning wet laundry. At this stage the drum is much lighter than during the wash and rinse. Joggers should not be too heavy for a 7 Kg drum. However, heavy joggers mixed in with lighter items could cause the load to be unbalanced, but that should only result in the washing machine not spinning due to the out of balance detection - as described here Washing machine won’t spin just one item or very small load That's ridiculous. If you hadn't shut the door properly you would have had to shut it properly before the start button worked. Wow that was lucky that it finally did it whilst he was there. I hope you do a lot of washing though, these big drums are only economical if you fill them and therefore do less wash loads than before. If you struggle to put full loads in they work out more expensive to run and can refuse to spin some loads (as described in my article Washing machine won’t spin just one item or very small load). However, they can be useful for large bulky items like bedding. Just try to wash less often with more laundry inside.
  5. 1 point
    Really appreciate your thoughts regarding the initial diagnosis, Andy. The engineer was gone in about 30 minutes so yes I agree his reluctance to slide the covers off was probably down to time constraints. Regarding my RCD, it is very rare for it to trip. It's been years since it last tripped. It's only trips when this washing machine is in operation and in the spin phase. I don't have many electrical appliances in my flat, but even when I use high-power devices such as an iron, kettle, hairdryer etc (2000w items), it does not trip. I know some people suffer from daily intermittent RCD trips, but that doesn't happen in my home. That's why I doubt the RCD is faulty. But as you say it's not impossible. I really think the issue lies with the machine. Two different sockets - and it's still tripping. Perhaps there's a tiny water leak or wiring catching. Maybe the leak is gradually eliminated as more water is removed - and that's why it doesn't trip on subsequent spins. Or maybe when the drum moves more aggressively as it gets ready for the spin, it clips something. I've narrowed it down the moment it trips to the final spin phase of the wash cycle and the spin-only programme. So something is happening there to make it cut out. The wash phase passes with no problems, so I guess it can't be the heating element. I suppose the only way to find out is by getting the covers off. I'm really tempted to test it tomorrow with a load to get a chance to capture the tripping on my phone. I just have this niggling feeling that I won't be believed with no evidence of the tripping. I called Bosch today to book another appointment and the earliest they could offer me was this Friday with a different engineer. They've offered to call me if an earlier slot becomes available. I suppose once again I will have to wait and see how it goes.
  6. 1 point
    Regarding it being unlikely that there is a leak or a wire snagging, I totally agree that it is unlikely. I'd even say it's very unlikely on a brand-new washing machine. But a good engineer does not discount anything just because it is unlikely. You can only discount the impossible. Obviously as an engineer you don't immediately jump to the unlikely possibilities first, you check the most likely, but if nothing can be found you need to start eliminating the less likely possibilities. Diagnosis is all about eliminating all possible causes - particularly when dealing with intermittent faults. Sadly it's likely to be down to pressures of time that these guys are under. I certainly could not hack it as a manufacturers engineer these days. I simply couldn't work to their time constraints trying to fit in so many jobs in one day. I would probably be out till 10 o'clock every night trying to finish all my jobs because I'm taking too long. According to the insulation reading you quoted the insulation test meter is giving a reading. It looks like yours is showing 20 M Ohm. If I remember rightly the maximum reading allowed is about 2 M Ohms. So technically he would be correct in saying it is within acceptable limits. It may be within acceptable limits, but on a brand-new washing machine I would not be expecting any leakage to earth at all. It's possible that your RCD is very sensitive and this insulation reading of 20 M Ohm is causing a problem. Or at some stages during the cycle the reading is changing to more critical levels. Having said that, it's not possible to completely rule out an issue with your RCD board. But if there was a fault there you would expect other appliances such as irons, tumble dryers, dishwashers, or cooking rings to also be causing the problem. Regarding the test meter not picking anything up - I would say that is what he should have expected to see and using it as evidence nothing is wrong is flawed. If a washing machine is tripping the electrics intermittently, then clearly any engineer testing it with a meter will find nothing wrong. That is obvious. It will read perfectly okay because it isn't tripping the electrics. It will only give a reading that shows something wrong when it has tripped the electrics, or in the preceding milliseconds before. So if I was being called out for an appliance that was tripping the electrics intermittently I would 100% expect to find nothing wrong when I put my insulation test meter on it. Therefore after carrying out the obligatory electrical checks the first thing an engineer needs to do is pull the washing machine out, take off the back panel if fitted and the lid, and physically check the machine for signs of things that might be catching. This is particularly necessary if the report is that it only ever trips out during spin with certain loads. That is precisely the symptoms that would happen if there was anything catching. If this is very unlikely it is still a potential cause of the fault that fits in with all the symptoms which has now not been eliminated. So the only way you would expect to find a bad reading on first inspection is if the fault that you were describing is that every time you turn on the washing machine the electrics trip. The fact that it can go through complete wash and spin cycles without tripping would mean that any insulation test readings taken are likely to show nothing. At least he tested it with laundry inside, and let them get wet to make them heavy. But as he didn't pull it out and look inside he's not eliminated anything at all and only found a reading that wouldn't trip the electrics - which is exactly what you would expect to find because the fault is intermittent.
  7. 1 point
    Hi William, yes, sounds annoying - definately sounds like condensation (thats silly if they said if it was an installation problem, how on earth would condensation dripping from the soap drawer be anything to do with installation) - most soap drawers on most machines will have soap drawers designed to let steam escape from the drum ... and soap suds. - If you put wrong washing powder or liquid in the drum and it over suds, you just watch the suds come out of the soap dispenser area and the hole where your hand goes into where you open the dispenser drawer with your fingers. How warm is the room with the washing machine in? - is it in a cold room, or a cold utility room or garage or cold kitchen? that could be causing more condensation than necessary coming out of the drawer than normal as the steam comes up through the soap drawer and hit the cold air in the room maybe. In the normal lifetime of the washing machine you are going to be washing at much lower temperatures than 90c ... your going to be doing washes of 30c/40c and at most 60c .. do you have the same issue when the washing machine is doing those wash temperatures? - only you shouldnt be having a load of condensation and wet steam coming out of the dispenser drawer at those temp's really (assuming the room it is in is around room temperature of 19-21c and not cold) otherwise yes the steam could settle on the wood of the worktop , make it wet and it will rot after a while. If you find a lot of condensation when this new machine is on, you know the room you have it in does it have a window, or a wall fan nearby the machine? - maybe you could open up the window or install a wall extractor fan and turn that on to cut down the condensation in the room where the washing machine is operating?
  8. 1 point
    I had the same problem. it's the water dispenser rubber hose just under the soap dispenser, it's rubbing to the metal edge during washing cycles it will eventually cut through the rubber hose and cause water leaks when water is going through the dispenser. Replace the rubber hose and flaten part of the matel edge that may touch the rubber hose with a pillar.
  9. 1 point
    Thanks for the valuable advice, Andy. My knowledge is very limited when it comes to electrical matters. Having read your post, I feel better equipped to know what to ask and look out for when the engineer comes round on Saturday. I'm not even going to bother speculate what it could be as it completed a 60C Cotton wash and final spin @ 1200rpm with the problematic laundry load when I tried it again earlier this evening. I just hope John Lewis won't fob me off because the fault appears to be intermittent. I'm tempted to try to recreate it again just so I can capture some video evidence. I'll probably give it a miss though. I guess I'll have to see what the engineer says; I'll keep you updated.
  10. 1 point
    I can’t see it, but without knowing what is wrong I wouldn’t try to persuade you. If it trips the electrics (as opposed to blowing a fuse) then it trips safely and in milliseconds. That’s the purpose of modern RCD boards. If you decide not to run it again make sure you have the same load that did it in the first place in the drum or one similar in weight for testing. The first thing an engineer should do is test the machine with an insulation test meter. Then thoroughly check for signs of a leak or any wires that could be catching. Then put the washing machine on rinse to wet the laundry and finally test it on full spin. If they don’t do all that they haven’t tried to find the fault. If they do, but find nothing and it doesn’t trip there’s nothing more they can do. If they try to charge you saying there is no fault refuse to pay and remind them that it tripped the electrics and you didn’t imagine it and how many times it did it. Tell them that if they cannot find an intermittent fault that in no way proves there is no fault.
  11. 1 point
    Hello Andy. Thanks for the informative post. I caught your reply by sheer chance today. I've finally been refunded for the Kenwood and LG machines I purchased. However, I've been left with a massive phone bill thanks to amount of calls I had to make to the Currys Team KnowHow helpline. I only make about a tenner's worth of calls per quarter, but my next bill is going to be about £130 in calls plus BT's line rental charge. I'm going to try to claw some of it back from Currys. I don't whether it's even possible, but I'm going to try. I ended up seeing my GP because of the stress of having to make so many calls (with a minimum 25 minute hold time) and repeatedly dealing with such poor service. The whole thing has put me off Currys for life. The new Bosch installed by John Lewis seems to be working well. It completes the cycles, and it is incredibly stable when it spins up. There is a small problem I've noticed: when ever I hit the start/pause button to start the Cotton wash cycle it pauses instead of starting instantly. Only when I press it a second time, does the programme begin. These new VarioPerfect Serie 4 Bosches have touchpads, so perhaps it's a little too sensitive. I can live with it (the machine works perfectly in every other aspect), but after everything that's happened, I have started thinking about it. I was completely unaware about the situation regarding fridges. I still think LG is talking nonsense when it comes to their DirectDrive machines. My flat is on the second floor and was built after the second world war - it's not a new build luxury apartment or anything. The floor is definitely concrete - and as you say there must be millions of flats like mine in England. I think they class it as a suspended floor simply because the home isn't on the ground. It's ridiculous that LG would design a machine that excludes so many households. It's just doesn't make much sense. Looking back, I really think the vibration issue I had must have been down to an internal fault or incorrect levelling. This Bosch is rock solid when spinning at 1200rpm with a full load of washing. As you say the direct drive design should result in a more stable washer. One thing I instantly noticed about the LG was how plasticky the chassis was. It did not feel like a chassis from a machine that usually retails for £550. The unit's plastic case would creak, even under slower drum motions. And the tinted door was very light in terms of weight and finish. Perhaps the poor plastic chassis played a part in amplifying the vibrations. I'm just happy it is gone. I just hope it's third time lucky with this Bosch. A couple of weeks in, and apart from that small issue with the start button, it seems to be working well so far.
  12. 1 point
    Hello all thank you so much for everyone's help. Hope it helps other people too. The issue is now resolved. I've changed washing machines. My wife's nan went to a home so we had her machine. Water tastes fine now??? And no leaks...... At the moment lol
  13. 1 point
    Retailers are terrible for not enquiring about how the appliances they sell are going to be used. Thousands of people have also had big problems when they have bought fridge freezers to install in their garage. Many fridge freezers will not work in rooms that are particularly cold, so a garage is just completely unsuitable. When the weather gets particularly cold the freezers start to defrost and are rendered useless. It is exactly the same style of problem that you have in that retailers rarely if ever ask where the appliance is going to be installed and used. If they did they could give their customers the kind of excellent advice that we should all expect, but rarely get, especially from retailers that essentially just exist to shift as many products as possible. There might be an argument that if a customer is not intending to install an appliance in the place where most people accept is the normal place then they should enquire if it is suitable to do so. However, I would not think that buying a washing machine for a flat is a special or unusual place. I doubt that anybody would think twice about it, there must be millions of flats. Until I've just checked on Google now, I didn't even realise that a suspended floor could be made of concrete. I had always assumed that they were made of wood. However, as to whether you definitely have a suspended floor or not I do not know. I could not find anything as to how to tell. Do flats above ground level always have a suspended floor? I don't know. As far as I'm aware, most if not all washing machine manufacturers would say their machines are not suitable for suspended floors because a suspended floor can be quite bouncy. But if the washing machine is installed right at the edge of the floor, which it normally is, I can't see how it could be that bouncy. However, it's possible that vibrations caused by the washing machine during spin may be amplified throughout the flooring. I don't know of any reason why the LG direct drive would have any particular problem with a suspended floor compared with other washing machines. The direct drive aspects of the washing machine simply does away with the motor and drive belt. The motor is built into the back plate instead, and as it turns, it just directly turns the drum. A normal washing machine has a motor fixed to the bottom of the outer tub and then a drive belt attaches to a drum spider to drive the drum. There is nothing about either system that should make one significantly different. If anything, you might expect a direct drive washing machine to be slightly more stable because the motors on the normal washing machines are commonly fixed to one side of the drum which make them inherently less stable. In fact isn't one of the selling points that LG push is the fact that it is a quieter machine? How stable a washing machine is likely to be on spin is more likely to be defined by the quality of its suspension, chassis, and general build. Anyway, it sounds like you've had one hell of a time with it all. Hopefully this Bosch washing machine will be the best of the three.
  14. 1 point
    Sorted! decided to buy a pcb so took it out of panel and curiosity got the better of me so plugged it back in and appart from getting a lot more lights but not the door switch light; then realised i was holding it upside down. Turned it around, pressed correct button and bingo we have a working washing machine - till next time! thanks for the encouragement if nowt else, appreciated.
  15. 1 point
    I found out the best was proper Loctite superglue - there are cheaper versions of superglue in the pound shops and they were rubbish think they must water them down or something very runny and not as strong as Loctite. Thats good idea, never thought of a bicycle puncture repair kit to do it.
  16. 1 point
    That's remarkable. I would never have expected superglue to hold under the stresses and strains of a bouncing drum and door seal. I used to use a bicycle tyre repair kit. With great success. I used to peel off the door seal and fix it to the back so it wouldn't be exposed to all the water. I'd roughen up the area with the supplied sandpaper and fit a large patch to it. Worked very well. Of course I always replaced the door seal as a first choice but sometimes the customer couldn't afford a new seal or it was decided a temporary repair would be OK.
  17. 1 point
    In my experience most quick washes are a waste of time. They sound good but they simply don't work unless what you're washing simply needs a good hot rinse
  18. 1 point
    If it's a cold fill washing machine it needs connecting to the cold tap. If it's hot and cold fill the hot and cold hoses need connecting to the correct water valve and tap. They are often marked with a C or H or the hot valve could be red. If the taps have been turned off and on again or it's been moved to different taps the water pressure could be different producing a different noise. If the noise eases off when running another tap that suggests the water pressure to the washing machine is higher than before. If too high it could be turned down a little. However, the noise whilst filling shouldn't cause any problems if it's just the sound of the water rushing in.
  19. 1 point
    Hi say a big thankyou washer has now settled down ALL GOOD again
  20. 1 point
    Thank you Andy, I going to check the all connections and PCB. A new hope Regards Laxi
  21. 1 point
    Hello Andy. Apologies for the late reply. Regarding the E33 error code - that was only something I was getting with the Kenwood washer that I had when I started the thread back in October 2017. I no longer have that machine as it was deemed unrepairable by Currys. They had, however, ordered a new PCB module and water sensor - but as they couldn't get the parts, the machine couldn't be fixed within a reasonable amount of time, so they wrote it off.Presumably the E33 error was - as I originally suspected - related to a faulty PCB/water sensor issue. I only received my full refund for the Kenwood 2 days ago despite returning it in December. I replaced the Kenwood with a more high-end machine from LG (a 2017 LG 8kg Titan with a DirectDrive drum to be specific). This machine was also purchased from Currys. The LG machine has been the one that I've had vibration/levelling problems with. It wasn't levelled correctly on the day it was installed by Currys. This was established and apparently "corrected" by Currys' engineers that came to inspect it a few days after it was installed. However, the excessive vibration problem persisted - so Currys sent round a delivery man to attempt to correct it. He unsurprisingly failed to the fix the problem. So I decided to contact LG directly. I explained the vibration issues I was having (thinking all it required was a few adjustments to the machine's feet). They asked me a few questions about how and where the machine was installed. LG then asked me if the machine was installed on the ground floor. I told them it wasn't as I live in a second floor flat. On hearing this, LG told me that their DirectDrive machines aren't designed for suspended floors. LG refused to send out an engineer because - in their opinion - the problem cannot be fixed. They advised I purchase some anti-vibration caps for the feet to reduce (but not eliminate) the vibrations. I tried to explain to them that I had a tiled concrete floor. LG maintained their DirectDrive technology isn't designed to work on suspended floors and that's why I'm experiencing such severe vibrations. LG said that not many people know this, and it was up to the retailer to make it clear to their customers. The manual for the machine doesn't even mention anything about suspended floors being an unsuitable installation environment. This obscure piece of information only seems to be available from the customer service helpline. The main takeaway I got was LG's DirectDrive drum technology is designed specifically for ground floor locations. I still find absurd that LG would design a 2017 washing machine with such a specific installation requirement.A part of me still doesn't believe them - suspended flooring isn't mentioned in the manual at all. And everyone I've spoken to laughs at the idea that a 2017 washer only works properly on ground floor locations. Currys didn't make it clear on their website - and even looking at the machine on their website today, there is nothing along the lines of "this machine is only designed for ground floor homes". Anyway, since my last post, I've returned the LG (Currys came to pick it up yesterday), so I hope everything goes smoothly, and I get a full refund for it. I picked up a Bosch Series 4 washing machine from John Lewis on clearance, and I had it installed yesterday. It's smaller (7kg), but it feels much more robust than the LG despite the LG's higher RRP. The Bosch just seems to have a better build quality. It's a normal belt-driven machine, and I've done a few spin tests with nothing in the drum and it has remained completely stable. I'll be testing it properly with a laundry load at the weekend. Perhaps you'll come across this DirectDrive and excessive vibration issue. There's nothing on the web about it at the moment. I know the DirectDrive tech is exclusive to LG, so maybe it's an emerging issue. I still think designing a machine that only works on ground floors is ridiculous from a business perspective. But LG seem quite adamant that their DirectDrive machines aren't designed for homes (or rooms) above ground level.