2006 Zanussi fill level too low

[Richard C]

Hi, great forum but couldn't find an answer to my problem.

When I put on a wash it fills for 30 seconds, then the wash starts. But it doesn't fill any more. I seem to remember it used to fill for a second time. At the moment I have to put several kettles of water in through the draw to get a good wash. If I don't the clothes barely get wet. I have had the machine apart, had the pressure switch out, and taken it apart, but couldn't find an issue. When I blow into the switch I get two clicks so seems to be fine. The pipe isn't blocked and didn't seem to have an air leak.

My only thought is that the machine might time how long it takes for the water to hit the first minimum switch, then calculate how long to fill the second time. Except if the pressure switch has gone out of calibration, perhaps it switches too early and the machine thinks the level is higher than it is?

Other than that, maybe a capacitor on the pcb has gone affecting the timing?

It's a fairly basic model, about 10 LEDs: ZWF1220W

Any suggestions are welcome.

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

Normally a washing machine fills with water for several seconds and then switches to a different valve to finish the full and flush detergent into the drum. So if the main valve isn’t working or there’s no water there you can get these symptoms. 

[andyr12345]

hi @Richard C - I see its only a 5kg washing machine you have there. As you are most probably away only some wash cycles will fill with enough water for washing 5kg seeing as you have had it years. 

as a test, without any washing in the drum, you could select a 'whites' wash cycle on the dial and make sure the 'half load' button is not pushed in - does the drum fill up with a good amount of water? 

if not then the half load switch possibly be faulty (if the water level switch turns out to be fine) - I have a feeling the 'half load' switch on the panel will be a always on circuit when half load button is off and then no connect when the button is pushed in (but I could be wrong , it might be other way around!) 

if you wish to test the 'half load' button, with the machine turned off and plugged out at the wall you can take the spade terminals off the back of the button and with a digital meter in continuity mode (with a speaker) can press in the button and see if the switch is working fine or not. When button is making a connection the digital meter will beep , if there is not beep when pressing in and out of button then the 'half load' button may be faulty/worn out and need replacing possibly.

There are more than likely other reasons for not getting enough water in the drum but this would be an easy check to check the half load button first of all (after the pressure/level switch) 

If you use any of these programmes: 

Synthetics (2kg max)
Delicates (2kg max)
Handwash (1kg max)
wool (1kg max)
mini program (2kg max) 

then these programmes will more than like like not fill the drum up with as much water.

Good luck.
 

[Richard C]

On 29/04/2023 at 20:03, andyr12345 said:

hi @Richard C - I see its only a 5kg washing machine you have there. As you are most probably away only some wash cycles will fill with enough water for washing 5kg seeing as you have had it years. 

as a test, without any washing in the drum, you could select a 'whites' wash cycle on the dial and make sure the 'half load' button is not pushed in - does the drum fill up with a good amount of water? 

if not then the half load switch possibly be faulty (if the water level switch turns out to be fine) - I have a feeling the 'half load' switch on the panel will be a always on circuit when half load button is off and then no connect when the button is pushed in (but I could be wrong , it might be other way around!) 

if you wish to test the 'half load' button, with the machine turned off and plugged out at the wall you can take the spade terminals off the back of the button and with a digital meter in continuity mode (with a speaker) can press in the button and see if the switch is working fine or not. When button is making a connection the digital meter will beep , if there is not beep when pressing in and out of button then the 'half load' button may be faulty/worn out and need replacing possibly.

There are more than likely other reasons for not getting enough water in the drum but this would be an easy check to check the half load button first of all (after the pressure/level switch) 

If you use any of these programmes: 

Synthetics (2kg max)
Delicates (2kg max)
Handwash (1kg max)
wool (1kg max)
mini program (2kg max) 

then these programmes will more than like like not fill the drum up with as much water.

Good luck.
 

Hi Andy,

Thanks for the reply and a good idea but the half load button is momentary with an LED so it's probably not that.

Thanks again, Richard

[Richard C]

On 29/04/2023 at 18:28, Whitegoodshelp (Andy) said:

Normally a washing machine fills with water for several seconds and then switches to a different valve to finish the full and flush detergent into the drum. So if the main valve isn’t working or there’s no water there you can get these symptoms. 

Thanks Andy, yes I forgot to mention both the prewash and main fill valves fill to start with. It's just the main valve doesn't seem to stay on long enough.

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

If you don't add any extra water, does the washing machine appear to work as normal, apart from not seeming to have enough water in? If it does, this tends to imply that everything is functioning correctly, because almost all faults should cause the washing machine to not function properly, or to abort and display an error code.

I've had instances in the past where there was a broken connection inside one of the solenoids which meant that when it got energised it tended to fill for a second or so and then stop. But when I carefully rattled the wire up and down, I could make the connection and the valve started to fill again. Obviously it needed a new valve. So one possibility is that it is a faulty valve, or some faulty connection somewhere going all the way back to the PCB and potentially even inside the PCB.

It just seems strange that if it isn't filling to the correct level it should time out with an error and not continue to wash, rinse and spin. Just in case, have a read of this article Washing machine does not seem to be taking in enough water

 

[Richard C]

1 hour ago, Whitegoodshelp (Andy) said:

If you don't add any extra water, does the washing machine appear to work as normal, apart from not seeming to have enough water in? If it does, this tends to imply that everything is functioning correctly, because almost all faults should cause the washing machine to not function properly, or to abort and display an error code.

I've had instances in the past where there was a broken connection inside one of the solenoids which meant that when it got energised it tended to fill for a second or so and then stop. But when I carefully rattled the wire up and down, I could make the connection and the valve started to fill again. Obviously it needed a new valve. So one possibility is that it is a faulty valve, or some faulty connection somewhere going all the way back to the PCB and potentially even inside the PCB.

It just seems strange that if it isn't filling to the correct level it should time out with an error and not continue to wash, rinse and spin. Just in case, have a read of this article Washing machine does not seem to be taking in enough water

 

Hi Andy,

Thanks for the additional thoughts. Yes I've read both of your water fill articles thanks.

Everything does seem to work as normal, but it doesn't seem to be overly intelligent with error codes. I had a previous issue on the PCB (a burnt out track) that meant the heater didn't work at all, but the machine just carried on as normal, no error codes, but obviously the wash was rubbish and the drum was stone cold. That is a fairly easy one to detect with a power meter on the plug. If it never goes above a couple of hundred watts, there's a heater problem.

Which just makes me think, since it's so old, that maybe the pressure switch has gone out of calibration. I may just get a new pressure switch to see if it makes a difference. I think I can get a new one for about £35.

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

Hi Richard. Yes, error codes are unreliable, washing machines sometimes give completely erroneous ones and sometimes nothing at all. I've never known a pressure switch go out of calibration, but they did recently completely redesign them, so maybe? They used to be simple mechanical switches operated by air pressure. I probably only ever replaced 1 or 2 in over 30 years.

Now they use ones that raise a magnet inside a coil. I would expect they should be even more reliable, but I have little experience with them. If yours is old though, it may have the old type. They used to have an adjustment on them that you could adjust with a screwdriver – though they were always sealed at the factory, and I never had to adjust one.

If the pressure chamber at the bottom is not partially blocked, then it's hard to see what could cause such low water levels other than the pressure switch because the software should not stop supplying the water valve until the pressure switch tells it the correct level is reached.

[Richard C]

17 minutes ago, Whitegoodshelp (Andy) said:

Hi Richard. Yes, error codes are unreliable, washing machines sometimes give completely erroneous ones and sometimes nothing at all. I've never known a pressure switch go out of calibration, but they did recently completely redesign them, so maybe? They used to be simple mechanical switches operated by air pressure. I probably only ever replaced 1 or 2 in over 30 years.

Now they use ones that raise a magnet inside a coil. I would expect they should be even more reliable, but I have little experience with them. If yours is old though, it may have the old type. They used to have an adjustment on them that you could adjust with a screwdriver – though they were always sealed at the factory, and I never had to adjust one.

If the pressure chamber at the bottom is not partially blocked, then it's hard to see what could cause such low water levels other than the pressure switch because the software should not stop supplying the water valve until the pressure switch tells it the correct level is reached.

Yes it's the old type, and yes it's adjustable.

It has just two switch levels and according to a document I found they are low water level and safety overfill only. So it doesn't seem to have a "correct" level sensor. Which makes me think the software is inferring the level from the low water level switch, which I can hear getting triggered during fill.

So if that's getting triggered a bit early would account for the problem.

I guess I could try finding the correct adjustment screw (there are several). If only there were datasheets for these things. Then I might be able to try to reset it somewhat scientifically using a pressure gauge or something. My Dad has a U-tube manometer somewhere...

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

I think the adjustable screw just adjusted the strength of the spring inside, which made it need higher or lower air pressure to switch over. I would assume the adjustment would be fairly small, but may prove if it’s the pressure switch if adjusting it caused more or less water to be admitted. 

[andyr12345]

That's why I liked when the pressure switches went to the newer type with just one adjustable screw (think they have a printed circuit board now as well inside the pressure switch now) whereas the old ones had bi metallic double throw mechanical switches and a black rubber diaphragm inside them. 

Even with our (new?)  Samsung washing machine bought a year ago in February I was so disappointed with how little water there was in the drum , especially on a quick wash I set about to increase the water with the screw on the pressure switch (just a couple of turns on the one screw on it) , I have the water just under the door seal now which is much more ideal , adds around another 5-10minutes on the wash (because of the extra filling and heating) but I would much rather have that and hear the clothes slosh around the drum rather that the pathetic bit of water it was putting in the drum originally. 

 

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

Hi Andy. Yes, many people are concerned that their washing machine isn't taking enough water in, when in most cases it is taking just the right amount in that it's designed to do. That's why I wrote this article to explain to people -  Is washing machine taking in enough water?

Of course, that doesn't mean there can't be a fault, so I'm talking in general now, not specifically about Richard's case (although I obviously raised it is something to consider). It's just that modern washing machines use as little water as possible. They use techniques designed to mitigate the lower levels such as the design of the drum lifters, or a special recirculation pump in order to constantly shower the laundry with soapy water. So by doing this they can keep the laundry saturated with soapy water without the laundry needing to be completely submerged in it. As I say my article this is exactly the same principle as having a shower. No one would argue that having a shower is less effective at cleaning is than sitting submerged in a bath.

Regarding the new pressure switches, I'm not sure why they needed to redesign the pressure switch other than presumably it is cheaper to produce, and or it may give them better control over water levels that they can utilise. I would imagine they can tell almost the exact level of water at any time. Whereas the old pressure switches were just either off, or on. So the washing machine only knew that the washing machine drum was either full of water, or empty.

As I said before, in 35 years of being out on the road repairing washing machines I think I only ever replaced one or two pressure switches. So they definitely did not need to redesign them in order to make them more reliable and, as is often the way I would be surprised if they are now less reliable. Hopefully not.

At the end of the day though, modern washing machines are designed to wash laundry perfectly effectively with the low amounts of water that they use. So there should be no need at all to increase the amount of water (I know that wouldn't stop you Andy) :-). personally, I would only consider it a problem if at the end of the wash cycles, the laundry is not coming out clean. though if this happens simply because it needs a little bit extra water in the wash cycle, then it's clearly a very badly designed washing machine indeed.

I would say that if Which? reviews say that a specific washing machine washes effectively, or even very well, then it's completely unnecessary to add extra water. If anything, extra water would be of much more value during the rinsing cycle. But even so, the washing machine should be specifically designed to rinse effectively in the amount of water that the manufacturers have designed it to use. Of course, this is only in theory, I know that many washing machines are actually very poor at rinsing.

[andyr12345]

Thanks Andy . I shall have a read of your article. 

My particular model of Samsung is a very strange one. - it cost around 500euro . its a 9kg. I have had the lid off and noticed that the door gasket at the top had a outline of a circle but not a hole - the hole was just blanked off.


I noticed it was missing a pipe running along the soap dispenser drawer housing.
I also noticed my particular model had only 1 inlet valve and that was it, not the 2 inlet valves the dearer model has where it has the spray nozzle in the door gasket. 

On further investigation I looked up their dearer models at around 900euro , and the dearer models had same features as mine. wi-fi connected, eco-bubble, bubble soak, steam etc and exactly same looking on the outside.
However - the dearer models had a nozzle in the door gasket, the dearer models had the pipe running along the soap dispenser housing inside, the dearer models had 2 inlet water solenoids and possibly a turbidity sensor (which my cheaper samsung model lacks) 
It got me to thinking that at a cost cutting exercise to produce my cheaper model they took out that extra water inlet solenoid, the pipe, the nozzle at the top of the gasket. 

but had I the model that did have that nozzle at the top of the door gasket that either sprayed / soaked water on top of the clothes then in that case I would never have increased the water in the drum with the pressure switch , well there would not have been a need to, because the close would be getting a good soaking from the jet at the top of the door gasket. 

it got me thinking , the amount of water in the drum must also be governed by firmware/software .... had they used the same firmware in my cheaper washing machine without water jet as in their machine with the water jet included if they had then its not so much of a worry on the dearer machine using little water because their dearer machine sprayed water direct onto the clothes in the drum (and also filled up the drum quicker with water because there are 2 water inlet solenoids working at the same time, 1 going to top of outer drum, and the other solenoid opening for to spray water into the drum from the top nozzle in the door gasket. 

so, that is what i think is that they done away with extra solenoid, extra pipe, extra nozzle but same amount of low water in the drum by software in combination with the water level switch . 

Before adjusting water level with the screw on the switch it was really pathetically low amount of water in the drum for washing , the clothes were just barely getting wet - it was fine when it come to rinse cycle because the water came at a height over the bottom of the door gasket and about a quarter up the glass bowl door... so that was fine .

 

Thing I like about adjusting the pressure/level switch to let more water into the drum now is that if I do decide to sell the machine, or want to put it back to factory level of the water level in the drum all I have to do is order a water level switch for around 15 quid from any washing machine spares place, and take this switch off the pipe and just fit the new pressure switch onto the pipe in its place and i am back to the standard amount of water used (because the replacement water level/pressure switches are already set up at the factory and have a red tamper glue on top of them)

one project I do want to do one day is fit the missing solenoid and pipe and nozzle in the door gasket to make it like the dearer models with the twin water system. To do that I might have to get a used samsung machine with them bits in and fit it to mine , or just order up the parts from a washing  machine spares place and just fit them in mine . It will still work out cheaper than buying the dearer model with that feature in it .

Edited May 5 by andyr12345
added photos

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

You make an interesting point (as usual) Andy. If you were correct about the more basic model having the recirculating section removed but still having the lower levels of water then they would have made quite a blunder. 
 

It could well be grounds for a refund or replacement if it was not washing laundry properly. Have you seen any Which? reviews on that model?

However, they might rely instead on the drum lifters constantly scooping up soapy water and drizzling it down onto the laundry. If this was the case you should be able to see water drizzling down onto laundry when it turns and just after it stops. 

[andyr12345]

21 minutes ago, Whitegoodshelp (Andy) said:

You make an interesting point (as usual) Andy. If you were correct about the more basic model having the recirculating section removed but still having the lower levels of water then they would have made quite a blunder. 
 

It could well be grounds for a refund or replacement if it was not washing laundry properly. Have you seen any Which? reviews on that model?

However, they might rely instead on the drum lifters constantly scooping up soapy water and drizzling it down onto the laundry. If this was the case you should be able to see water drizzling down onto laundry when it turns and just after it stops. 

ah right , is the which reviews subscription or are they free to look at the reviews?

yeah the lifters scoops up the water as normal (well now I have increased the water in the drum) I dont know if it would with the water level before I increased it because  there was so little water in the drum. - I would not say the water 'drizzling' is not as effective as a nozzle spraying water / water & detergent directly onto the clothes myself. 

there is something satisfying about seeing the water level just over the bottom of the door gasket lip on a washing machine, and seeing if there are a few soap suds there and hearing the washing sloshing around in plenty of water rather than going around nearly dry when washing I cannot explain it but there is. it most probably is a psychological element to it - i know washing machines have come on immensely and use a tiny amount of water these days for the same results but I still much more prefer to see the water and see the clothes getting a good soaking! 😁
I know , I am a bit of a crackpot!

 

 

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

A lot of information on Which? is available to everyone but reviews are usually for members. But you can usually get membership quite cheaply and can cancel any time.

I personally can’t imagine not being able to look at their reviews and other information. I just automatically log into Which? before making any purchases apart from cheap and general stuff. 
 

Full details here Why subscribe to Which?

I can appreciate your satisfaction at being able to “customise” your machine 😊

[andyr12345]

On 06/05/2023 at 12:56, Whitegoodshelp (Andy) said:

It could well be grounds for a refund or replacement if it was not washing laundry properly....

Haha they would never accept mine back for refund or replacement Andy LOL , I have done too many 'mods' to it. Increasing the water level in the drum, making it spin clockwise direction instead of anti clockwise among other things 😁

there are people on the Samsung europe group that cannot even get a door seal replaced under warranty even for a machine 6 months old. the seal has been failing all it seems in the same area so looks like it could be a manufacturing design fault but samsung are steadfast that they will not replacement the seals under warranty now and say that the customer has to call out a engineer to replace the door gasket at a price of over 100 quid. 

So yeah if people are having problems getting a door seal replaced they would certainly not entertain replacing my machine back for replacement or refund LOL  

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

I think if you had a valid claim Andy, no one would really find out about your customisations. They would most likely just uplift the old washing machine and scrap it. But yes there does seem to be a problem with the door seal on the Samsung washing machine, I recently exchanged comments on my article here with someone with that exact problem https://www.whitegoodshelp.co.uk/how-to-get-a-faulty-washing-machine-exchanged/  I included links to some photos sent to me in my last comments.

[MelS]

On 28/04/2023 at 23:25, Richard C said:

Hi, great forum but couldn't find an answer to my problem.

When I put on a wash it fills for 30 seconds, then the wash starts. But it doesn't fill any more. I seem to remember it used to fill for a second time. At the moment I have to put several kettles of water in through the draw to get a good wash. If I don't the clothes barely get wet. I have had the machine apart, had the pressure switch out, and taken it apart, but couldn't find an issue. When I blow into the switch I get two clicks so seems to be fine. The pipe isn't blocked and didn't seem to have an air leak.

My only thought is that the machine might time how long it takes for the water to hit the first minimum switch, then calculate how long to fill the second time. Except if the pressure switch has gone out of calibration, perhaps it switches too early and the machine thinks the level is higher than it is?

Other than that, maybe a capacitor on the pcb has gone affecting the timing?

It's a fairly basic model, about 10 LEDs: ZWF1220W

Any suggestions are welcome.

No doubt the machine has been scrapped or repaired by now, but I thought it worth mentioning for anyone with a zanussi, AEG, or john lewis washer, you can download the service manual for electrolux's,  and look in the section for your Zanussi's platform, this one is the ewm1000 I think,  and it will tell you how to get in to (and out of) diagnostic mode for the various versions which will allow you to test the solenoids, heater etc, and show how to display and read the error codes.

I think position two on the selector knob in diagnostic mode activates the wash solenoid and three the pre-wash soilenoid, on more advanced models with a display it will also show the water level as it fills, it is all explained in the manual of course.

Search for ewm1000 service manual in google.  

At a guess, could possibly be a blocked / faulty solenoid, broken wire, bad connection, or the wash solenoid triac. I think the triacs on that are surface mount components, so you would need a bit of skill at soldering if one needs replacing.