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Ise- Do Not Believe The Hype


Bry888

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My ISE machine is less than one year old when we paid £899.00 for it with a 10 year guarantee. We bought it based on the steel drum and the hype on their website saying it was bomb proof, used volvo truck bearings and it's paddles could catch coins etc and blah blah blah. Last week an object of some kind punctured a hole through the METAL outer drum and caused a leak. The object has not been found yet as it does not appear to have come right through into the casing. There is nothing rattling around inside either or found in the drain pump catcher/filter. BIG mystery. In any case ISE are not going to pay for the repair so I thought that it should not be not too bad as it's an ISE which equals cheap repairs and parts. They even said this on the phone when I called before buying it in the first place and that's what they boast on the website. WRONG WRONG WRONG. £550.00 they want to repair it. 62% of the cost of a new one.

What is the point of buying an expensive metal drum machine if objects can still get between the drums and cause such damage. I might as well buy the cheapest one and replace it every couple of years. In short do not fool yourself into thinking that a metal drum is the answer to punctures as suffered by plastic drums. Do not also be fooled by hype on the ISE website. It is not truthful. I have never had this problem in 26 years of other machines and indeed my last AEG lasted 7 years until we changed it due to holes in clothes. It ran at least twice a day in that period. Goodbye ISE and the drying cabinet I was going to buy is now not going to happen either.

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  • Root Admin

Your position is compromised somewhat by the fact that the damage has been apparently caused by some presumably strong and maybe sharp obstruction, which should not have been in the machine. Depending on what it was it may or may not be a surprise that the metal tub got punctured. I'd be surprised if just a coin did it.

There's no doubt whatsoever that their metal outer tub is considerably better than any of the plastic tubs on "normal" washing machines and will easily withstand many obstructions that would ruin plastic outer tubs.

I do agree with you entirely though that one of the main USPs for ISE washing machines, and one that I have promoted myself on my sites, is that they will be relatively cheap to repair, with no outlandishly expensive spare parts prices.

To be fair, I wouldn't be surprised if this was the only tub they've ever needed to replace so far. An outer tub is always a very expensive part due to its sheer size and the fact that they rarely need replacing. A metal tub is highly unlikely to ever need replacing under normal conditions so it's still feasible that they are only charging a reasonable price taking into account what it will be costing them to buy from the manufacturer. It may well need to be ordered and shipped specifically from Sweden. It's also a very big job labour wise. I agree that on the face of it, it sounds a very expensive repair and you must be gutted to be in this situation.

I get the feeling from your post that you accept it's probably been caused by an unfortunate accident (do you have accidental damage insurance for your house contents?) but are upset that the tub was pierced and at the cost of repair.

I've come across quite a few of these incidents where the "object" has disappeared leaving a mystery, which is very dissatisfying. If we knew exactly what caused it we could accurately judge whether it was reasonable or not for the metal tub to be damaged. It's not necessarily reasonable to expect a metal outer tub to withstand anything - only coins and I have to admit finding it hard to imagine a coin punching through a metal tub but I can't say for sure it's impossible.

At the end of the day it sounds like a highly unusual incident, and they are very expensive parts on any brand. I can't say whether the price quoted is reasonable in relation to what it cost ISE as I'm not aware of costing but I would imagine they are unlikely to have marked it up anything like Miele or most other manufacturers do.

It's difficult to say much more at this stage. I hope you understand I try to look objectively at all cases like I think you've tried to do yourself.

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Update- the engineer did not find anything but this morning I checked the large drum outlet hose and found an approx 8mm bolt around 25 mm in length with a narrower end point. There is no way that this bolt could have got there from a wash. I got onto the dealer and ISE as soon as I found it.

The response from their Technical Director was an implication that I put the bolt there as the engineer had checked everything. As you can imagine I was furious to say the least. He completely dismissed the bolt as causing the damage even though it was the only object found. He really did not believe me. However I managed to get a photo of the puncture indentation/hole next to the bolt end and surprise surprise they are an exact match. Like something out of CSI!

The MD of ISE has agreed to check another machine to see if this bolt is part of the machine and if it is then try to find out how it got there. If not part of the machine then it is a complete mystery where it came from. I believe it must have been there from day one and it has eventually got some momentum from somewhere and flipped up. Proving this however is impossible but i await the result of their machine strip down.

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  • Root Admin

Thanks for the update and I hope this mystery gets solved soon. Trying to put myself in their shoes I can imagine them being sceptical but businesses have to give customers the benefit of the doubt unless they can be totally sure. When dealing with the public for many years people can sometimes get pretty cynical after seeing the depths some can stoop to, and the unbelievable things they can claim. However, if it starts to affect your attitude in general to customers it's likely to adversely affect your reputation and that's a bad thing.

Putting myself in your shoes I can see this is likely to be a stressful and uncertain situation and can see why you would take the stance you have.

I know it's a lot easier to try and rationalise and think in a balanced way when sat at a computer with the time to weigh everything up thoroughly than it is to try and do it on the fly - when you have to give instant responses - with a customer (possibly angry) on the end of the phone, so I don't mean to sound like I have all the answers, but here's my take on it for what it's worth -

If a bolt gets inside the drum and/or outer tub it should immediately be noticeable. It will make a horrendous noise as the metal bolt inside a revolving metal drum is tossed around. It is going to cause noise and damage virtually straight away.

Therefore if the bolt is the culprit, it must have found its way into the drum/tub pretty close to the day the incident happened.

As the washer is many months old you can understand why the immediate assumption would be that the object which caused the damage (whatever it turns out to be) was introduced just recently.

The number one source of foreign objects in washing machines bar none - with overwhelming odds for - is "the user". Either accidentally inside a pile of laundry (something falling into the wash basket or onto a pile of laundry prior to being shoved in), or something left inside a pocket, or something pushed into the soap dispenser or the drum by a child (I once had a wrecked washer with a golf ball inside pushed into the soap drawer by a child).

I would go as far as to guess that with say 10,000 cases of a foreign object incident it might be that every one of them was introduced in some way by a person and not anything to do with a part from the washing machine which is virtually unheard of - especially after several months.

So bearing all that in mind it's understandable that ISE would be finding it very hard to believe that the bolt was in there from the start.

Is it possible that the bolt has come loose from somewhere on the washing machine?

The only entry into the tub is either through the door or through the soap dispenser. There aren't any bolts that could come from this area that I'm aware of. (Unless it's a washer dryer where it may be possible for some part of the dryer section's heating housing to have a small bolt that may possibly be able to find its way into the tub.)

Is it possible that the bolt is still from the washing machine?

It's possible the bolt is technically from the washing machine in that it could be a bolt used somewhere else, but if it came loose it could only drop to the floor of the washing machine and couldn't get inside.

One theoretical possibility is that the bolt was from the production line and somehow got dropped into the machine during manufacture. However, in order for it to get inside the tub it would have to have been somehow dropped into the drum or outer tub assembly or soap dispenser and it should have caused trouble right from the start. It is theoretically possible that one could have jammed somewhere quite quickly such as under the heating element or heater bracket and not caused any trouble until eventually getting displaced through a particularly heavy load or after being laid down or moved to another location, but we are talking about highly unusual theoretical possibilities.

Where does that leave things?

You could disconnect the washing machine from the mains and have a good look inside the machine to see if you can match up the bolt to anything fitted. If you could, then you can at least claim the bolt is from an ISE washing machine and is unlikely to have come from you.

If you cannot see any matching bolt or even a hole where one appears missing then it's difficult to prove the bolt isn't a totally alien obstruction that must have somehow got into the machine. There are no bolts that I can think of that could be inside the washing machine to potentially come loose and fall inside the drum or tub. All bolts will be either within parts, on the outside of the tub and drum assembly, fixing the pump to the chassis, fixing the motor on, bolting up the tub etc. - but all these bolts can only drop into the machine's base or onto the floor and couldn't possibly get inside the tub.

What about the bolt being found in the machine by you and not the engineer?

I'm presuming from your description the bolt was found inside the sump hose? The large concertina hose attached to the bottom of the tub leading to the pump? If so it seems strange the engineer missed it as it's the first place he would / should look. If the engineer in question claims he looked there and found nothing but you later say you found it then again it's understandable they would be sceptical. It's possible he didn't look, or didn't look thoroughly but that's pure speculation. The problem is that even if the bolt proves beyond reasonable doubt to be the cause, it doesn't unfortunately solve the problem of how it got there unless by any chance it's a washer dryer and somehow a bolt on the dryer's heating housing could get inside or there is some other quirk in the design of the ISE washing machine that I'm unaware of.

I honestly don't know what I would do in their position. It would depend on whether they accept the bolt is technically from an ISE machine or not. If they are convinced it isn't they are unlikely to accept any responsibility. If they concede it is they have to work out how it could have got into the machine and only caused damage with no reported symptoms for several months.

I can see both sides, and if accepting your version of events is totally honest I can see why you would be angry and refusing to budge. There's no straight answer, it's a highly unusual case indeed.

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Warning:  Read this before attempting any diy repairsNo representations or warranties are made (express or implied) as to the reliability, accuracy or completeness of advice. I can't be held liable for any loss arising directly or indirectly from the use of, or any action taken in reliance on, any information on this website, which is given free of charge and in good faith.

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Further update- ISE sent the photographs of the bolt to the Asko factory in Sweden. Guess what? They identified it immediately as being part of the machine for connecting the drum. I have received an apology this morning from ISE although still not fully accepting that the bolt was responsible (Beyond my comprehension). Think about it though. If I was not an engineer myself and wanted to know what happened then I would have had to claim on my insurance or simply write it all off as a bad experience and buy another machine. It is outrageous that this company and their engineer did not do their jobs properly. ISE admitted they should have waited for all the facts before making comments including thinly veiled implications that I was lying. In any case my dealings with ISE are finished. I have asked for a full refund and I will not buy any more goods from them. I will recite this story to every consumer website I can find and to family and friends. The Technical director is a disgrace to ISE. however the MD I have to say was more helpful overall.

i'm sticking to cheap..ish and cheerful machines from now on.

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Thanks for the update. If you accept the impartiality of my comments you should get some understanding of why they found it difficult to believe your side of the story, and may feel a little less angry later, but ultimately lets hope they've learned a valuable lesson from this. The old adage that, "the customer is always right" is not always easy to accept in practice :)

Well done for battling on and sticking to your guns when you believed you were in the right.

I still don't understand exactly where this part fitted and how it could get into the drum, and would love to know how it got into the machine and how it took so long to cause a problem. All I can say is that from an engineer's point of view (as explained in detail in my last post) I can fully understand their line of thought but there's a very big difference between suspecting a customer may be trying it on and accusing a customer without full evidence. It sounds like it was badly handled and I reckon if I were in your shoes I'd have been very insulted and extremely stubborn about it as I'm pretty sure they would be in a similar situation. In the end, they came up good as at least they sent the photo to ISE in Sweden and have conceded it was from an ISE machine - though the whole thing still appears to be a highly unusual and unique case to me.

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Warning:  Read this before attempting any diy repairsNo representations or warranties are made (express or implied) as to the reliability, accuracy or completeness of advice. I can't be held liable for any loss arising directly or indirectly from the use of, or any action taken in reliance on, any information on this website, which is given free of charge and in good faith.

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