Hotpoint Wm63 Tripping Rcb

[morris822]

hi there,

first post, only found this by accident after getting bit sick and tired of paying for an ex Hotpoint engineer to "fix" the WM63 only then for the fault to keep on coming back once he has left (3 times so far) and started googling "washing machine trips breaker on the net" as SWMBO is getting seriously uptight about it and I am getting annoyed at having paid an expert to diagnose a problem which doesn't get fixed.

Basically a wee while ago (circa 12 -18 months) the wm63 needed new brushes as it refused to wash anymore. It had not tripped the RCD before that but once new brushes were installed it worked sometimes (as in completing a cycle without tripping) but tripped other times co-inciding with either turning or spinning.

Having read other posts and the FAQ section on why my machine trips, I will check tomorrow whether the "expert" installed white ones or brown ones brushes as Andy the moderator (apologes for being so casual about using first name terms given newbie status) has commented on one post that brown ones cause more harm than good. Then there is perhaps the fear of excess dust causing an issue but I am sure that the area was clean when new brushes were installed.

As an aside there are no other electrical goods on at the same time (i.e LCD tv, kettles, oven) and the 13A fuse in the plug never blows (acknowledging that the CB could have a quicker reaction time than the fuse)

The WM63 is wired up to a socket in the wall (not a traditional socket where you put a plug into it - the three wires go into a blanking plug and at the back of that blanking plus there are areas for the wires to be feed into).

Thinking that this wiring may be at fault I have taken the washing machines wires out and fitted a traditional plug and tried a traditional socket and plug combo but the same happens it trips.

Reading other posts it appears the armature may be suspect. I am no DIY'er and certainly no electrician so can't check the insides of it.

A leaking earth also appears to be a candidate.

Plus an ELCB?, is mentioned - the machine is 13 years old!!

A knacker breaker or weak (not surprised given the amount of times I have had to reset the poor thing) could also be the culprit.

Finally an insulation leak

Every time the expert leaves he says great washing machines these, you will never buy a new one as good as this, but there comes a point when buying the latest "which" recommended washer has to be a good bet as I can't keep on paying money to have this "repaired" when the money would be better spent on retifying the problem (if the breaker isn't the issue - and that's why I am stalling buying a new washer)

Had a electrician out and he checked everything as ok with the house and the wiring and said it could be a number of appliances but surely it is the washer machine as opposed to a fridge or freezer.

Any help would reduce the amount of Just for men I expect to buy as this issue is caused quite a bit of marital tension recently.

The last time the expert was out, he checked the drum and the bearing for any excess wear and confirmed that all was good

Thanks

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

Hello morris822: It's the none genuine Hotpoint carbon brushes that are terrible. The genuine (Black) ones are bad enough, but the none genuine ("pattern", "equivalent", "to fit", "will suit") ones are dreadful. At least they used to be when I came across them. They were way too soft, and wore away quickly, often causing a large build up of carbon dust, which covers the inside of the motor causing it to leak to earth and trip the electrics or blow the fuse.

The white carbon brushes are the laminated type fitted on faster spinning washing machines and wear a little slower (Help and advice on, plus buy Hotpoint & Creda carbon brushes)

As I say in my troubleshooting article Washing machine is fusing, or tripping the electrics you cannot effectively troubleshoot this fault without a proper insulation test meter, which are too expensive to buy for diy use. Without one you can only work by guessing, which is not good.

If you've had a lot of carbon brushes fitted you may have a low insulation on the motor which could be caused by a build up of carbon dust (try blasting it with compressed air or one of those air duster cans) but it could just as easily be the actual armature that's down to earth. However, normally a low insulation on the motor should trip the electrics as soon as the motor is powered up.

If the washing machine only trips sometimes then I would suspect that it's not caused by a specific part being down to earth or having low insulation. I would suspect either a small leak occasionally getting onto something electrical or the tub bouncing around and a chafed wire occasionally and intermittently touching the casing or something metal. If it happens mostly or exclusively when you have heavy loads in this could explain it.

I would dispute the "great washing machines" comment. I personally don't think Hotpoint are great washing machines. Not by my definition. You can buy considerably better, although at much greater cost. (Washing machine reviews)

[morris822]

thank you Washerhelp (being abit more formal wrt addressing you this time) for taking the time to reply. Acknowledge the part about proper insulation test meter aswell as the other advice. My skills are extremely limited and where electricity is concerned I was always conditoned to stay well away based on a limited knowledge is dangerous.

I will however take the lid off (once I have switched of at the wall and taken the wall fuse out too as an added precaution) and have a good look around for a chaffed wire as "If the washing machine only trips sometimes then I would suspect that it's not caused by a specific part being down to earth or having low insulation. I would suspect either a small leak occasionally getting onto something electrical or the tub bouncing around and a chafed wire occasionally and intermittently touching the casing or something metal. If it happens mostly or exclusively when you have heavy loads in this could explain it" this does seem to apply (i.e heavy or full loads). Towels inparticular are a P.I.T.A to wash as they trip the RCB about 6-10 times and neighbours wonder what on earth I am doing standing in my garage for 30 mins whilt the washing machine finishes it's cycle (almost suitable for a faulty towers sketch)

I will also do as suggested and check and blow out carbon dust to see if that helps (the WM63 has to date only needed 2 replacement brushes which for 13 years I feel is good going). I will update acordingly as having read other posts before posting it helped me a great deal in trying to summarise what was the problem. Failing that it will be back to the "which" magazines to buy a new Bosch which I see are already mentioned in your machine machine reviews section

Thanks again

Regards

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

I wouldn't worry too much about the motor. I would first unplug the machine and take off the lid first and then the back if you don't find anything. Look carefully at all the wiring where it passes over anything metal or could catch on anything metal if the tub moved around from side to side as it does with towels in. It may only be a very small pin sized hole or it could be a small strip of exposed wire. It's possible for some wires to have chaffed round the bottom of the tub weight underneath.

[morris822]

Well I write this reply still expecting the washing machine to trip and for me to trundle downstairs open the garage and curse as I reset the breaker, but as yet it hasn't (and probably won't) as a direct result of your advice and help. Gushing platitudes aside, I am one of the growing number of fans of your site (who wouldn't be when they receive free advice which results in solving an irratating and potentially expensive problem). As a friend used to say - it isn't often I am wrong but on this occassion you were right again.

So after alot of looking around I found a small (and I mean small as you eluded to) rubbing area on a wire close to the motor. Having tried to pull the wire away from the metal casing and failed due to its memory/position that it has become so used to over the last year, I covered it with electrical tap. I now have my computer runnning, the washing full with clothes and the TV/DVD running to do a test drive and the machine is working like a spring chicken again.

Thank you Washerhelp sincerely. May I bug you for one last piece of help? I intend to wire the machine back up to the blanking plug on the wall but rather foolishly didn't take note of which way the wires went. Would blue still go to the left of the plug and brown to the right (it is a continous piece of metal which the wires get screwed into. I say this as I wss taught to wire a plug and remember which way the wires go by following the second letter of te colour of the wire - so earth (a) for ahead, blue (l) for left and brown ® for right.

Regards

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

Thanks morris822: I'm very pleased my advice helped. I can't work in left or right because I can't be sure which way round any connections would be or even from which point of view someone is describing it. There should be an L next to the live connection (brown) an N next to the neutral (blue) and an E next to the Earth (Yellow & Green).

This may or may not help How to wire a plug

[morris822]

Washerhelp,

So one week on and I am still running round like a kid in a sweet shop. Washing machine is properly plugged back in now (compared plug to wall socket when wiring it all up) and washing machine is doing another load now. Thanks ever so much again.