Soap Dispenser Housing plumbing

[andyr12345]

Hi Andy - its not a repair question. 

Do you know how these soap dispensers work on the washing machines? 

here is the setup on my samsung washing machine (which I am sure on most machines) 

so its a cold fill only machine and here it is:


2 solenoids - 1 for pre-wash compartment (I) , same one for the main compartment (II) blue terminals - and the other solenoid for the fabric softener. 

Thing is what is baffling me is (and I dont need to repair it, obviously it is designed to work like this)  is that with the 1 solenoid with the blue terminals, the machine starts a wash cycle by filling the prewash (I) compartment, does that for about a minute or so (and this is even when prewash is not selected on the washing machine) after that it diverts the water to the main wash (II) compartment where the washing powder goes and continues to fill up the drum (taking down the powder) but without any means of a diverter valve or anything like that how does it switch the jets at the top of the soap dispenser housing to the other side like that? 

One mod what I was thinking of is sawing off the blanked off connection



and put the Main pipe on this connection so that it will start from the beginning of the wash to fill up the big compartment (II main wash) and not the pre-wash (I)  compartment at all (because I never ever use pre-wash at all, never in the past once, and never will do in the future. 

but yes intrigued to find out how one solenoid without some kind of diverter valve know which compartment to fill up at what time/stage of the wash? - do you know how it does that? 



 

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

Hi Andy. Sorry, I missed this. Yes that is very puzzling, the only way to put water into one compartment, and then into another compartment would be to have separate solenoid and hose, or some elaborate mechanical diversion system. The picture you show seems like it can only possibly send water into the fabric softener via one valve, or the main compartment wire the other valve.

I'm not sure why you would want to bypass this feature though because if the initial water goes straight into the main compartment it would wash away the detergent, some of which would go straight into the sump hose, which gets sealed off and would be wasted. If this isn't an issue for you, that is if you use the auto dosing system I'm not sure why you would need to change anything?

[andyr12345]

47 minutes ago, Whitegoodshelp (Andy) said:

Hi Andy. Sorry, I missed this. Yes that is very puzzling, the only way to put water into one compartment, and then into another compartment would be to have separate solenoid and hose, or some elaborate mechanical diversion system. The picture you show seems like it can only possibly send water into the fabric softener via one valve, or the main compartment wire the other valve.

I'm not sure why you would want to bypass this feature though because if the initial water goes straight into the main compartment it would wash away the detergent, some of which would go straight into the sump hose, which gets sealed off and would be wasted. If this isn't an issue for you, that is if you use the auto dosing system I'm not sure why you would need to change anything?

Thanks for your answer Andy.
Its a very strange operation I have been observing it a bit more (too much time on my hands you may say LOL) 

so (on a non pre-wash program) :

1.) the machine first empties for about 10seconds , IE the drain pump works, (presumeably to empty out the stale water in the sump) 
2.) then the machine starts filling with water going in the pre-wash compartment (so no, detergent in that compartment) - thats OK that seems logical because as you say you dont want your detergent ending up in the sump , but instead of the pre-wash compartment filling up with water for a few seconds what most washing machines do and then switching over to the main compartment with the detergent in, it carries on ages filling by the pre-wash compartment. Not only is the pre-wash compartment smaller than the main one but because its smaller it has less jets at the top of the housing , and less jets also mean longer to fill up drum with water than if the water was being taken in by the main wash compartment. 
3.) so it spends the best part of the time filling up the drum with water by the pre-wash compartment (and of course no detergent powder/liquid going down into the drum) then finally the solenoid switches over to the main compartment and washes down the detergent, just a little time before the drum starts moving to start the wash . 

I also observed that when both solenoids are energised that it diverts the water to the fabric softener compartment at the end of the wash on the last rinse cycle, so thats how it takes in the conditioner - both solenoids work to do that. 

I have since swapped over the terminals on the solenoids rather than the pipes , so now when the machine is filling up now it starts straight away filling on the main compartment and taking down the detergent which i find much better and more chance of dissolving the powder and washing it down , I never ever use pre wash cycle so I dont have to worry about it not going into the pre-wash compartment now. 
If i had done that modification on a normal washing machine without eco-bubble (regen pump) then yes I would worry that the detergent would sit in the sump, but as the machine has eco-bubble pump when it starts washing it pumps back the sump contents back into the drum anyway. - and even after swapping the terminals the fabric softener compartments still works as it should and at the right time.



 

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

Hi Andy, does the recirculation pump actually pump water from the sump hose? They normally just pump it from bottom of the drum.

However, it should really matter at all. For probably 60 years all washing machines just took the detergent straight down like that. It's only in the mid 80s someone decided to seal off the sump hose to save detergent. I remember Hoover started doing it around the mid 80s, and I remember thinking it was probably mostly a gimmick.

[andyr12345]

1 hour ago, Whitegoodshelp (Andy) said:

Hi Andy, does the recirculation pump actually pump water from the sump hose? They normally just pump it from bottom of the drum.

yeah I think it does , last time I looked underneath I thought that was the arrangement - I could be wrong 

[MelS]

Late, but I can answer this if you are still curious, because I had the soap dispenser apart on my machine about 10 years ago due to a leak and it not dispensing conditioner (all caused by mould). If anyone gets the same problem, I would recommend using a steamer to clean the compartment rather than taking it apart.

The two inlets nozzles form water jets, there's an air gap to three channels that feed the shower holes above each section of the draw, which the jets at the back squirt into, the left jet feeds the right channel, right jet feds left channel, and when both solenoids are open the two crossing jets merge squirting out straight into the centre channel.  Electrolux calls their lid the "water conveyer", the bottom of the gap between the inlet nozzles and the water conveyer channels is open, allowing excess water to flow back out of it into the back of the dispenser compartment straight into the drum, bypassing the draw. 

The blanked off inlet is almost certainly to feed into a fourth channel that feed water into unused holes above where the bleach compartment would be, likely towards the back of the fabric conditioner section on a UK draw.

A partial blockage caused by mould in one of the two nozzles at the back of mine was the cause of the leak, it divert the jet and I think caused it to spray over the side of the draw and find its way out of the front and run along the bottom of the plastic facia where the control board sits. 

Nowadays, I leave the draw open between washes, so the mould problem has gone away.

 

Edited November 28 by MelS