What are Samsung Washing machines like in General for reliability?

[andyr12345]

Hi Andy (and also anyone on here who has samsung washing machine or owned one) I am looking at the SAMSUNG Series 5+ Auto Dose WW90T534DAW/S1 - I do like the idea of the auto dose and that it will measure out the doses according to how dirty the clothes are. 

But for many years I have always had Hotpoint washing machines and they have lasted me for years so dare I change, thats the thing! 

Any idea how effective auto dose washing machines perform, and what are their reliability like and how reliable on the whole are Samsung washing machines in general ? 

Also the machine is apparently 9Kg drum ... but my present Hotpoint 8kg looks like the drum is bigger in it when you open the washing machine door , wonder why that is?

Thanks,
Andy. 

 

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

Hi Andy. My first thought is that auto dose possibly fixes you into buying their particular detergent but more importantly Unless I’m mistaken all  autodose washing machines use liquid detergent which unless something has changed contributes to build up of grease and grime because it doesn’t contain bleaching agents. 

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

Also. How do they know how dirty laundry is before washing? I thought they did it by analogue dirt water that gets pumped out?

[andyr12345]

Thank you Andy for the reply. I dont really know how they check how dirty the washing is to be honest. I say an Advert years ago for a Haier Washing machine and that I think that filled up, tumbled the clothes in water a bit then pumped out and a hall sensor in the pump sump hose measured the dirtyness of the laundry , i think thats how it worked. 

It apparently has a reminder after 40 washes to do a drum clean this Samsung washing machine , could it be likely that this gets rid of grease and slime if it were done regularly?

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

Hi Andy. Yes it is strange, I wouldn't think it was possible to do that properly. You can only see how much dirt comes out of the laundry after it has been washing for some time in detergent and most of the dirt has been removed from the clothes and suspended in the water.

I recall some dishwashers used to monitor the level of soiling using a see-through section of the piping and something like a laser beam. They use that information to determine how long to wash for, what temperature and then exactly how many rinses are necessary. But again this information can't be used to determine how much detergent is needed. 

However, there is a big difference between a dishwasher and washing machine. On a dishwasher, within a minute or so of spraying all of the dishes you will have a very large percentage of the gunk off the plates and into the water which can then be analysed. But with the washing machine and laundry the dirt will not come off the laundry for some time. If it did come off straightaway we could get away with some very quick washes indeed

I suppose it's technically feasible for them to add more detergent in the washing machine at some point during the wash cycle but I'm not sure exactly what they do. I wonder if when they claim it uses the right amount of detergent, they simply mean that it is programmed to use a specific amount of detergent according to the exact wash cycle you have chosen and may be any optional buttons?

I have mixed feelings about automated detergent dispensation. The first manufacturer I noticed doing it were Miele. It's a good idea if it definitely ensures that the correct dosage of detergent is always used. In my experience the majority of people seem to use too little detergent because either they are trying to save money or they erroneously believe that they don't actually need to use the full amount as described on the box. But either way it can seriously shorten the life of a washing machine and cause all sorts of problems with grease grime and limescale building up.

But then on the other hand you have the fact that you are tied into using a specific type of detergent. I wouldn't even be surprised if you have to use the Miele detergent. I wouldn't be surprised if they all at least try to claim it will invalidate your guarantee if you don't use their specific detergent.

It takes away your choice which is rarely a good thing. So for example supposing the detergent becomes too expensive, or you find that it's just not as good at getting your laundry cleaning is the one that you used to using your old washing machine. You may see which Best Buy detergent that is half the price and actually works better. So you should always be free to choose your own detergent. As I said before I don't believe liquid detergent is good enough because it doesn't contain bleaching agents.

As long as you are able to turn off automatic detergent dispenser and put your own choice of powder detergent in for example then it's not so bad, although if you end up doing that you have spent a lot of money on a feature that you do not use. They would need to be a standard soap dispenser and a method of turning off the dosage though.

I suppose it's possible that all manufacturers will end up doing this and it might be that at some time in the future all washing machines will be like this. At the end of the day if the manufacturers have hit on an idea that allows them to sell you detergent for the rest of your life that something they are all going to jump on.

I's a totally unnecessary feature for anyone who has the good sense to choose a good quality detergent and read the instructions, but then there might be an argument that only a minority of people do that, and so it is something to force on them for their own good. Of course anyone who doesn't use enough detergent because they think it's expensive, or they believe you can get away with using a lot less are going to find future detergent purchases very expensive.

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

Hi Andy. I ended up doing a lot of editing to this is  after posting so if by any chance you read it straight away, or read it directly from the email please refresh this page and read it again.

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

By the way my personal preference would be to buy a Bosch washing machine. They seem to be very reasonably priced and very well respected by Which? Or an AEG.

My problem with Samsung, and all of the brown goods manufacturers is that they tend to make washing machines that are no better quality (probably just the same ) as everyone else regarding build quality and longevity, but they rely very heavily on hooking customers with a lot of extra features that are quite arguably unnecessary, and often very gimmicky. This of course adds cost to the appliance.

If some of these features appeal to people and they genuinely find them useful that's fine, but many of these features never get copied by anybody else, and sometimes even get dropped. It's as if they have, "extra features" ingrained in their DNA because it works so well with brown goods where people will very commonly upgrade a perfectly working TV, or PVR because it has lots of extra features. This does not tend to happen at all with white goods.

Features like a small compartment inside the door glass that allows you to open it up in order to slip a sock in the drum, or stuff a small item of laundry inside that's been forgotten rank as the perfect example of a completely unnecessary feature for me.

 

[andyr12345]

Thank you Andy for the exhaustive reply I agree with all that you said. The samsung washing machine I was looking at had indeed an extra 3rd compartment to add powder or other liquid



and then on the display menu switch the autodose liquid detergent and fabric softener autodose to Low-Med-Hi and Off  ... which makes me think if you have to set that in the menu then how can it be auto dosing according to how dirty the wash is if you have to set the dose to low medium or high? - seems to defeat the object. 

I am thinking now more than likely that this particular washing machine does not go on dirt (or dirt alone) to measure out the required dosage. - I bet it detects the weight of the clothes in the drum and adjusts the water accordingly ... or the water level valve denotes how much water is needed for the clothes in the drum ... then the dose changes accordingly , could I be right in that? - so the more water that goes into the drum it tells the autodose detergent compartment to use more detergent because there is more water in the drum - does that sound more feasible of the way it works , rather than empty a bit of water and see how dirty it is . 

On my present hotpoint washing machine (which has lasted me for years now) it had its own 'workaround' for 'adding to the wash' - if i forgot a sock or something after starting a wash I just took the kickplate off that covered the pump filter and next to the filter was a green plastic emergency door release so I used to pull that to open up the door (as long as the water level was beneath the door sill) LOL - it worked quite well haha. 

I cannot stand the look of those Samsung 'Add Wash' doors they put on now , apart from the aesthetics of it , ruining the look of the front of the machine I just dont get the Idea. i am sure that maybe people would add a sock or something too late in the wash where its coming to the end of the wash cycle before it goes to empty/rinse. No, i dont like them anyway. 

The Series 5 samsung I was looking at has the 'ordinary' looking door without 'Add Wash' - the newer model series 6 has 'Add wash' in the door, 1kg less drum capacity and no autodose feature and is over 50euro more so I weren't interested in that one at all.
 

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

Hi Andy. To me the term auto dosing just means that it automatically adds the detergent. If it claims that it adds the appropriate amount according to the soiling then as we've discussed we would love to know how they do that. It could just be that they use the program you have selected to determine the amount of detergent and whether or not you select something like half load or heavy soil options?

To me the amount of times that anyone puts on a wash and finds a stray item that they must include in that wash must be so minuscule that it is purely a gimmick to design a washing machine that allows you to do it. It's one of those features that many people are likely to think ooh that's handy, but never actually need.

 

[andyr12345]

Andy You know you were saying about the gunk of washing liquid as opposed to using powder , is it because its cold water fill / cold water inlet only and just does not dissolve the liquid totally ? 

I have one of these T-Pieces , is there any advantage of me adding it to the washing machine so I have hot and cold water pipes going to it and the 1 outlet mixed to go to the cold water inlet?






- I realise the water will still only be warm and not hot because of the amount of time the water will take to get from the header tank in the loft then through the copper cylinder immersion tank and then to the washing machine downstairs - and that the clothes at the end of the wash may come out warm but do you reckon the warm water rather than freezing cold water will help keep the washing machine free from gunk from the washing liquid? 

Here is Setup I was thinking of doing:

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

Hello Andy. No it's caused by the fact that apparently for technical reasons I don't understand they are not able to put bleaching agents inside liquid detergent. It's the bleaching agents that help to prevent the buildup of grease and grime and bacteria although wash temperature is also key.

It's definitely possible to set up a system like you describe although the washing machine would have to be several inches away from a wall in order to accommodate the Y piece that would have to be connected directly to the water valve. Also any knocks to this while peace could potentially break it away and cause a flood.

Of course an alternative way would be to attach a hose to the single connector on the Y piece using a fill hose extension adapter which changes it from female to male and then have the Y piece laid on the floor. The whole setup is a bit messy so would not be ideal at all or even practical if a washing machine is installed under a worktop in a kitchen.

You point out one of the main disadvantages in that there would be very little if any hot water that would get into the washing machine on the wash cycle. You would get hot water in during the rinses though because by the time it is doing rinses there would be plenty of hot water in all the pipework. There is an argument that it might rinse laundry a little bit better if it is rinsed in warm water rather than stone cold though not necessarily because warm water tends to excite soapsuds and cause more so it would depend on how many rinses a washing machine does and they try to use as little water as possible these days.

 

[andyr12345]

Thanks Andy - very helpful

[andyr12345]

On 30/01/2022 at 17:11, andyr12345 said:

.... tumbled the clothes in water a bit then pumped out and a hall sensor in the pump sump hose measured the dirtiness of the laundry , i think that's how it worked.....

Turbidity Sensor - that's the sensor i was thinking about. - some top end washing machines have them . 

this Samsung washer hasn't got it - it has got a KG weight sensor that weighs the load before it starts washing though  (presumably to measure out auto-dose of liquid detergent and adjust time to wash)  

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

Thanks Andy. So that means it’s like we speculated, the Samsung can’t adjust dosage for level of soiling. I’ve a feeling that all washing machines could end up with automatic detergent but I remain unconvinced if it’s necessity. 
 

For me it just introduces lots of other parts to go wrong and add to the cost of the machine and I’d wager the cost of the detergent will increase greatly plus the concerns about liquid detergent not being as good for the washing machine. 
 

 

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

I remember turbidity sensors. I think my Neff dishwasher has one as that has an auto programme that adjusts temperature and amount of rinses depending on how dirty the dishes are. 
 

I just looked up the meaning. “Turbidity: The quality of being cloudy, opaque, or thick with suspended matter.”

[andyr12345]

so, I sold my soul to the Devil Andy ... after years of owning Hotpoint washing machines and getting on OK with them and lasting pretty well on the whole have moved over to this Samsung one now 9Kg with auto-dose  . I could not afford the likes of Bosch or Miele with the same features that I wanted. The price was €529euro ( works out to £442)  from Currys online. 

I have wrote this review on Samsung forum if you want to have a read of my first impressions with it (only had it a week) or if you approve my post with the link  then maybe it may help your forum members in deciding if its the right washing machine for them maybe? 

https://eu.community.samsung.com/t5/home-appliances/samsung-ww90t534-first-impressions/td-p/4793296

 

[andyr12345]

7 hours ago, Whitegoodshelp (Andy) said:

Thanks Andy. So that means it’s like we speculated, the Samsung can’t adjust dosage for level of soiling. I’ve a feeling that all washing machines could end up with automatic detergent but I remain unconvinced if it’s necessity. 
 

For me it just introduces lots of other parts to go wrong and add to the cost of the machine and I’d wager the cost of the detergent will increase greatly plus the concerns about liquid detergent not being as good for the washing machine. 
 

 

yes , pushing to one side more to go wrong and the efficiency of liquid as opposed to powder and what liquid does to the machine and its parts over time, on the plus side of autodose feature i think will be that the washing machine detergent drawer will be kept cleaner than the one on our hotpoint that we used powder on - plus being cold water inlet only (and low pressure because it was hooked up to the header tank in the loft and not the cold water mains) on our hotpoint we had to regularly 'wash down' the powder in the detergent drawer with a couple of cups of hot water as the powder did not dissolve properly in the soap drawer a lot of the time just clumping up to a mass of un-dissolved washing powder.

On this new samsung I believe it also has a detergent drawer cleaning feature ... am not sure how it works this system yet (does it just have specially placed jets that clean the soap drawer down??) nor do I know yet how efficient it works at keeping the drawer and compartment clean .

On another minus side of having to use liquid (on top about your observation that the liquid not having bleach etc)  now instead of powder, the soap powder came in a cardboard box .... cannot see liquid getting to that stage LOL so looks like our plastic container waste will increase now as we will have to get liquid detergent from now on for the new washing machine with autodose feature - there is a separate compartment in the autodose wash drawer to put in a couple of scoops of washing powder if one wished to stay with using powder for this machine but of course that defeats the object of getting an autodose washer where you dont have to fill up the soap drawer every time you do a wash . 

 

[andyr12345]

14 hours ago, Whitegoodshelp (Andy) said:

Thanks Andy. So that means it’s like we speculated, the Samsung can’t adjust dosage for level of soiling. .....

Looks like my particular model cannot - but there is a dearer samsung model with a turbidity sensor on it a Samsung WW90T986DSH/S1 - retails at £1,149.00  in the UK :

 

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

On 13/02/2022 at 00:36, andyr12345 said:

retails at £1,149.00  in the UK

Wow. That's a crazy price for a washing machine that's not even of higher build quality than the average washing machine.

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

On 12/02/2022 at 18:12, andyr12345 said:

On this new samsung I believe it also has a detergent drawer cleaning feature ... am not sure how it works this system yet (does it just have specially placed jets that clean the soap drawer down??) nor do I know yet how efficient it works at keeping the drawer and compartment clean .

Not sure Andy. Samsung are full of features, it's how they roll. Maybe some of the features are genuinely good it's just that I'm not familiar with most of them now. The problem with the detergent drawer is that a lot of the detergent becomes sticky and cloggy as soon as water runs onto it so unless the water flushing it into the drum is fairly high-powered, which it normally can't be for fear of leaking out of the front of the drawer, then you tend to get the soap dispenser drawer getting very messy over time.

The water that flushes the detergent into the drum is usually slowed down with flow restrictors in the water valves because as mentioned earlier, the soap drawer's can develop trouble some leaks. For some reason very few washing machine manufacturers ever fit an actual seal on the soap drawer. The only one I've seen is Dyson, which is sadly no longer with us. 

 

[andyr12345]

4 hours ago, Whitegoodshelp (Andy) said:

Wow. That's a crazy price for a washing machine that's not even of higher build quality than the average washing machine.

It might not have the build quality Andy but its not short on features though: 
inverter motor
Auto-dose
Wash sensors 
Q Drive drum
5 year parts and Labour warranty (after registration)
10 year Invertor Motor warranty
WiFi enabled
and loads of other features 

So it covers that market anyway , I suppose for same price you might get a better built on but without all those extra gadgety features?

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

You can get a perfectly good Miele for just over half that price. I’d take that any day Andy 😁

[andyr12345]

4 hours ago, Whitegoodshelp (Andy) said:

The water that flushes the detergent into the drum is usually slowed down with flow restrictors in the water valves

This is pretty interesting Andy - where abouts are these restrictors in the solenoid valves and are they removeable OK? , because I am ultimately going to be having the machine hooked up to the cold water pipe from the header pipe up in the loft which is already going to be low pressure and not have the pressure of the cold water mains so the last thing I want to do is slowdown the water pressure even further with these 'flow restrictors' in place

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

Hi Andy. As it happens there was a post just last week where someone uploaded a photograph of those very parts. Make sure you leave the filter in place though - 

 

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

On 12/02/2022 at 13:36, andyr12345 said:

I have wrote this review on Samsung forum if you want to have a read of my first impressions with it (only had it a week) or if you approve my post with the link  then maybe it may help your forum members in deciding if its the right washing machine for them maybe? 

I forgot to comment on this. That's a very good and comprehensive review. You could have posted it on the Samsung forums here though. Feel free to add the review or another one.