Soapy laundry

[Sarah60]

for 7 weeks my washing machine is leaving clothes soapy. Samsung have been out twice and say it’s fine. It has its own plumbing pipe for drained water and doesn’t have a siphoning problem. The machine is only two years old. I’ve run out of ideas and researching what could be the cause. If I put a load on multiple rinse cycles there is still soapy water coming out at the start of each drain process. I have the pipe into the sink currently. Problem started when the drain pipe was in its usual place and has continued. Any ideas would be really appreciated. 

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

Hello Sarah. Make sure you are using the right amount of detergent as ironically not using enough can cause cloudy water.
 

Also make sure you aren’t overloading and that detergent isn’t being spilt into the rinse compartment in the soap dispenser drawer which then gets flushed in during rinses. 
 

Try a wash without fabric softener, in case it’s the fabric softener that’s clouding the last rinse water. 
 

Most things such as pump filter needing cleaning should have been checked by the engineer.
 

If none of the above helps and your washing machine pumps away the water into the u-bend under the sink try unscrewing it and checking for partial blockage in the end of the drain hose and inside the u-bend where it connects. 
 

Also read this article which although not specifically about rinsing may help laundry not clean after washing

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

Also check this article which again is not specific to your issue but may help too much foam when washing

[Sarah60]

Thank you. Everything you mentioned has been checked. I’m using the right amount of powder and haven’t used softener for a few weeks while trying to figure this out. The drain pipe is going straight into the sink at the moment while I’m trying to solve this problem. 15 drum cleans done. I can’t fathom why even brand new unused items can be coming out soapy. I couldn’t get your article to open though. 
 

[Sarah60]

I have now read the article and it’s non of those things. I’m totally lost as to what could possibly be causing this. Thank you fir trying to help. 

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

Hello Sarah. Is the washing machine completing the cycle including all the three or four rinses? The most common cause for soapy laundry at the end of a cycle is that the washing machine is not pumping out the water fast enough due to a partial blockage somewhere, but these days I would expect the vast majority of washing machines to detect a fault and abort with an error code.

If the washing machine is pumping water out at a decent rate (and I think you mentioned that is pumping into the sink at the moment so you can see) then everything is likely to be working okay.

If the washing machine completes the cycle as normal, in normal time, and carries out all of the rinses then unless the laundry is really packed tightly together they should have been rinsed. When you say they are soapy, do you mean they are literally soapy or just that you can see some soapsuds in the rinse water? If it's the latter, then as mentioned in one of the articles I linked to above, this is not necessarily soap, and can be linked to not using enough detergent, which is highly counterintuitive.

It is very difficult to help without being able to see the washing machine and the laundry.

[Sarah60]

Hi. Yes it completing all cycles. Water seems to be draining away fine and strong. Samsung told me I was using too much powder, which I wasn’t. I’ve been using a lot less since, to the point I wouldn’t feel as if clothes were properly washed.  When I push an item of clothing down into hot water in a sink dish the water goes white. And it can take over 30 water changes to have it running clear. I have hand rinsed laundry and then put it into the machine on a wash to test it, with easily not too much powder. And they come back out and are soapy again when I hand rinse. It’s very upsetting. I’m surrounded by piles of soapy clothes and at a total loss. 

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

If I was checking it I would first make sure the detergent is being put into the right compartment and being flushed into the machine right at the beginning of the cycle. 
 

Also that no detergent is spilling into the rinse side to get flushed down during rinses.

Then I’d check it’s not somehow connected to wrong plumbing and rinsing in hot water (which can happen). 
 

Then that it’s not siphoning water so that water doesn’t fill in drum enough to rinse laundry.
 

Then I’d make sure it does proper rinses and fills with water at least 3 times and sloshes the drum back and forth to properly rinse them.  
 

I’d also make sure appropriate wash cycles are being used and not a quick wash and that no options are set that reduces water usage. 

[Sarah60]

Thank you again. All of the above is checked and fine. There was an issue with syphoning about 7 weeks ago, but a plumber came and put in a new pipe for the washing machine, to be separate from the sink etc. The pipe he installed is very deep before the u bend. He basically said that will stop the the syphoning problem totally. And certainly the awful drain smell in the clothes stopped straight away. The machine was then put onto  numerous drum cleans before use.  This too much detergent issue started straight after that. I first noticed it as could smell it on the drying clothes. 
but after two visits from two separate Samsung engineers and many hours of researching myself I seem unable to fathom what’s causing this. The Samsung engineer said the drum looks clean from the inside. There is no detergent collecting in the drawer. It is an absolute mystery 

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

The issue with siphoning, was it water siphoning into the washing machine from the sink - or water siphoning out of the washing machine?

[Sarah60]

Hmmm I don’t know whether the issue was that it siphoned back from the machine or the sink. It smelt like drain is all I know. But it does seem odd that the problem I have now is right in the back of the siphoning problem 

[Sarah60]

Also I should mention the the syphoning problem started with a machine already in my rental house. It was quite a new 6kg. Thinking it was the machine not handling my daily loads and not realising the problem I had it agreed by the agents that I put their machine into storage and bring mine out. My Samsung eco bubble has only been used for a total of two years. Anyway, so as soon as my machine was in and I’d done a wash load I realised the problem was not the previous machine. That’s when a plumber came to give advice a fix. It is a friend sand I didn’t have to pay, thankfully. 
But it was the same problem with both machines. 

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

Yes usually water poured down the sink (including dirty water) can run down the drain hose and into the washing machine. However that’s very easily fixed with a cable tie. 
 

If the drain hose is now inserted into a pipe the old fashioned way and it is pushed down it more than several inches water can siphon out of the washing machine. That can mean the drum never fills up properly with water. 
 

These days though that would normally cause the washing machine to detect an error so if it isn’t then it may not be relevant but read this article where it is headed SIPHONING Washing machine fills and drains at same time

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

Have you read everything in this article? too much foam in washing machine especially the bit about how fabric softener suppresses soap suds? I’d start using fabric softener again. 

Also, if you don’t re-rinse laundry and just take it out of the washer when it’s done does the laundry seem washed and ok? Many laundry detergents are designed to leave a fragrance on clothes that a lot of people like. In order to achieve that something of the detergent must remain in the clothes. 
 

Finally modern washing machines don’t seem to rinse very well at all as I write about here Why can’t modern washing machines rinse properly?

[Sarah60]

The machine has its own separate draining pipe now so that no sink water can syphon back. But at the moment I’ve had the machine draining pipe going into my spare sink so that I can see what’s coming out. The machine is pulled out so the pipe isn’t stretched at all. I’m going to read properly through the link you have kindly attached and see if I can work out if it is in fact a plumbing issue. A friend wants to buy me a new machine to help me but I’m very hesitant to say yes in case it’s the plumbing causing this and not the machine. I will let you know the outcome. If you think of anything else it is all very welcome. Thanks so much for your time. 

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

1 minute ago, Sarah60 said:

The machine has its own separate draining pipe now so that no sink water can syphon back. But at the moment I’ve had the machine draining pipe going into my spare sink so that I can see what’s coming out. 

Yes good point. If it’s still doing it with the drain hose over the sink it can’t be siphoning.  

[Sarah60]

In your opinion, as it definitely isn’t syphoning, can it still be a plumbing problem?  The two Samsung engineers both did full tests on the machine and watched it filling and draining. They said the water pressures and levels are all fine. It’s an absolute mystery and not a nice one 

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

Hi Sarah. The siphoning issue potentially related to not rinsing properly is only about water siphoning out of the drum and not into it. It’s caused if the end of the drain hose is pushed down too low. So it can’t possibly be the case if the drain hose is in the sink. 
 

The only other plumbing issue could be the water supply, but if there was a problem with that the washing machine would detect that it’s not taking enough water in during the allotted time and abort the cycle. This is another possibility mentioned in my articles, but if it’s not aborting the cycle it can be discounted. 
 

I would like to know the answer to my previous question about if the laundry seems ok when you take it out? Not sure if you mentioned earlier or not about them being soapy? If they are obviously  there’s no doubt a fault. But if they are only soapy if you rinse them in water in the bowl there’s a danger that this is normal and a different washing machine may be no different as described in my comment about detergent fragrance and link about poor rinsing. 

[Sarah60]

I don’t see soap on the laundry when I take it out. After the syphon problem was sorted I merrily did a few loads thinking all was fine. As the clothes started to dry the usual pleasant scent I got in the drying room was replaced with an almost bitter smell of the fairy non bio. On smelling the clothes the smell isn’t pleasant. 
I did more drum cleans until there was zero suds in the machine and then washed brand new and unused towels and t towels with an adequate amount of powder and they all had the same smell as dried. That’s when I decided to rinse them to see and the water went immediately white and took very many rinses to run clear. 
Also the laundry is stiff. I’ve used fairy non bio since my grown sons were babies and never had a problem. 
move since tried non bio liquid but no change. If I do one wash of well rinsed clothes and then a drum clean to test, there is always soap suds back in the drum clean. I’ve now done about 15 drum cleans. The engineer said the drum looks like new so I don’t think soap is stuck in there. 
when the engineer had the top off I asked him to pass me the pipe that goes from the drawer to the drum to wash. There was soap stuck in there and also some black from the syphon problem. I scrubbed that clean. But the problem remains. No soap is remaining in the drawer and I’ve checked that the powder leaves the drawer when it should. Also using no softener for now to not complicate things. 

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

Hi. To be honest most of those things seem normal. If you’ve stopped using fabric softener that would explain why laundry is rough.

I also believe that if you rinse any laundry that’s been washed in a washing machine in a bowl of clean water you will get cloudy and slightly soapy water out of them.
 

And all washing machines have retained detergent in the hoses the dispenser drawer and drum. It’s always been that way and nothing to stop it. So if you put any washing machine on with no laundry inside I am pretty sure you will see some soapy water.
 

‘Im just concerned that a lot of or at least some of the things you’ve discovered whilst investigating the original problem are things that have always been there and you didn’t know about it and will be there on any washing machine. 

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

Hi Sarah. Here’s an example. I just put our washing machine on with no laundry and no detergent inside and the water is quite soapy ..