Issue with a Hoover Nextra Chronovision Awash 7.5 + 5 Family 1600 HNWF 6167 – 88M

[Mikael Bäckstöm]

Dear Hoover washer experts,

I’ve got an issue with a U.K. made Hoover Nextra Chronovision Awash 7,5 + 5 Family 1600 HNWF 6167 – 88M 31000796 0510 1252 LCE7, a combo washer dryer that I bought 16 years ago:

1 When starting the 90 degrees Celcius (90 C) cotton program, it simply turns off after the timer has arrived at a certain angle where the program starts. It is not possible to restart the washer in this position.

2 When starting the 60 C cotton program, the washer turns off at the same timer angle as for 90C, but turns on immediately thereafter, the timer rotates a tiny bit, turns off again, turns on again, rotates a tiny bit, etc. five times more, then turns off. After this procedure, the washer mus be turn on again and then it starts to wash. However, after the wash cycle, it turns off and starts again repeating the same wash cycle in infinitum. It hangs up before the rinse cycle.

3 Similar problem as in point 2 for the 40 C cotton program

4 When commencing the 59 minutes fast wash program it starts fine but hangs up after the wash cycle and repeats the wash cycle again and again.

5 Similar problem as in point 4 for the 44 minutes fast wash program and the 40 C mixed fabrics program.

6 The fast spin program doesn’t go up to a full 1600 rpm spin. After exceeding around 1000 rpm, it shuts off and starts again from the beginning of the cycle.

7 The rinse program hangs up after the first rinse cycle and repeats the cycle infinitely.

However, the 29 minutes fast wash program, the half speed spin program, the final rinse program and the drain program do all work fine. Therefore, I didn’t panic yet because I am still able to wash my clothes properly with just these four programs!

I don’t use the dryer.

As far as I know, the washer hasn’t any diagnostic system so there aren’t any error codes that could assist me.

I checked the following potential issues: the door lid system is fine, water solenoids are fine (4-6 kOhm resistances), water is getting hot, the water pump is working and neither the drain hose nor the water fill hose is clogged. The motor seems to work properly so I believe I can rule out the motor capacitor too. I checked the timer selector switch too which is an EC 2003.02 A 410003735 and I didn’t find any special issue with it such as broken teeth on the gearwheels or some other part looking bad. However, the gearwheels look a bit worn which may be an issue. Then, I checked the program module and all the connections to it visually and I couldn’t find any component or connection there looking bad, corroded or burnt either. I haven’t got the equipment to check all the separate chips, relais, capacitors, resistors and the triac. I didn’t check the pressure switch and the PCB control panel button cluster.

After sleeping one night on it, I believe the key question is whether I shall replace the timer or the program module or both? Or did I miss something? The program module is GBP 145 + customs, VAT and fees for the import of the piece to the EU which implies that I must consider a replacement in this case. Thank you for your assistance.

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

Hello Mikael. Unfortunately my personal advice is that if the washing machine is 16 years old it is not worth repairing. I know it's easy for me to say get another one, which may or may not be possible, but 16 years old is absolutely ancient and has long since been on borrowed time. Many of the parts are probably quite worn and just lining up to fail. It's remarkable that you can even buy any spare parts for it, however parts like the program modules don't sell very well so I suppose it's not surprising that there are still some knocking around in stock.

This is because even if a washing machine is only five or six years old the vast majority of people would not spend £145 plus VAT (and for most people plus labour charges) on a single repair, which would be more than half the cost of a new one.

Just checking now I can see brand-new Hoover washer dryers for £379 and with 12 months interest free credit. If you do not use the dryer section then obviously I would strongly recommend buying just a normal washing machine, and they start at about £179. Admittedly there is little chance of a washing machine at £179 lasting 16 years but at that price even three or four years isn't too bad value although the average life these days is probably about seven years. Obviously this could trigger the thought that you'd rather have your old one than a potentially inferior one but you have to look at what the average life of a 16 year old washing machine is. I would stake quite a lot of money that it is not three or four years though you never know :-)

The average life of a washing machine for the last 20 to 30 years has been about 7 to 10 years so if you had it 16 years that is quite remarkable.  I can understand how you might be attached to it but gambling nearly £200 on a spare part that may not make any difference to the fault would be crazy to me :-). You've checked out all of the obvious faults so it only leaves something quite unusual. Those old washing machines used to click the program time around when they detected a fault. They were extremely crude and didn't indicate where the fault could be. However it is just as likely or possibly more likely that the behaviour of the programme controller is in response to a problem somewhere else rather than a fault in itself so do not gamble on buying such an expensive part.

If it's not that part, and it's not the heating element, or one of the hot water valve, sometimes they respond strangely to low installation faults. Something like the heater or the motor could have low electrical insulation but you would need a specialist insulation test meter to test for that. Other than that it could potentially be a wiring fault, a break in a wire somewhere, a problem with a sensor.

This is the problem, it is so old that even if you manage to fix it it can't possibly less that much longer. Sorry I can't be more help. The only article I can point you to is my article on Washing machines tripping the electrics as this article has a section on long-shot things you could try if you do not have an insulation test meter. This article is about when washing machines trip the electrics but before they trip the electrics sometimes they have what is termed low insulation which means the insulation fault is not enough to trip the electrics (especially if a household does not have RCD circuits fitted). But this low insulation can in certain circumstances cause bizarre behaviour and faults in some of the older washing machines.

[Mikael Bäckstöm]

Dear Andy,

thank you for your advice. Looking economically upon it and if one has better things to do than spending hours checking a broken old washer, it makes sense to do that what you advice: just buy a new one.

However, since I am an engineer and it is fun to repair things and see if they work again, I couldn't resist the temptation to buy (the guy told me that) a new timer selector switch that I found on a used goods trading site for private persons for GBP 18.

There is some improvement:

First of all, the kind of cracking noise from the worn gearwheels in the timer is gone.

1 When starting the 90 C cotton program, it simply turns off after the timer has arrived at a certain angle where the program starts. It is not possible to restart the washer in this position. NO IMPROVEMENT.

2 When starting the 60 C cotton program, the washer turns off at the same timer angle as for 90C, but turns on immediately thereafter, the timer rotates a bit longer than before, turns off again, turns on again, rotates a bit, etc. three times more, then turns off. After this procedure, the washer must be turned on again and then it starts to wash. One improvement is that the program works until the end, where it shuts down but immediately thereafter starts again, the tub moves a couple of turns, shuts down, starts again etc.. The washer must be turned off manually. IMPROVEMENT.

3 When starting the 40 C cotton program, the washer turns off at the same timer angle as for 90C, but turns on immediately thereafter, the timer rotates further and turns off. After this procedure, the washer must be turn on again and then it starts to wash. New is also here that the program works until the end, where it shuts down and immediately thereafter starts again, the tub moves a couple of turns, shuts down, starts again etc.. The washer must be turned off manually. IMPROVEMENT.

When using the pre-wash function, the machine turns off after the pre-wash cycle and must be started manually again where the wash cycle starts. NO IMPROVEMENT.

4 and 5 The 59 minutes and the 44 minutes fast wash programs work now fine but after the machine has finished, it starts again, the tub moves a couple of turns, turnes off, starts again etc. IMPROVEMENT.

6 The fast spin program goes now up to a full 1600 rpm spin, but after the machine has turned off, it starts again, the tub moves a couple of turns, turns off etc.. IMPROVEMENT.

7 The rinse program works now also fine with the exception of that the last cycle starts again after it has finished. IMPROVEMENT.

To sum upp, the washer works better but the problems are still

1 The 90 C cotton program doesn't start.

2 When using the 60C and 40C cotton programs, the machine must be started again after the timer has moved to an angle immediately after the point where the 90 C cotton program would have started.

3 After the pre-wash cycle, the machine must be started again.

4 For many of the programs, the machine must be switched off manually in the end.

So I have to stay at home when I wash clothes and while washing I'll check new washer bargains!  I think I still have six to twelve months time. Thank you very much.

 

 

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

Gambling £18 is completely different of course. That's worth trying for sure. If it's a hot and cold fill washing machine then not working on 90 wash is almost always no hot water getting into machine. Either faulty valve, kinked hot hose, or tap not turned on properly - or maybe even broken so you think it's turned on but it hasn't.

[Mikael Bäckstöm]

Thank you Andy for the suggestion. No, there is only cold water getting into the washer.

When one starts the 90 C program, it is strange that the machine turns off immediately after the timer has gone into position to start the program. All other programs do not turn off.

I believe that there is one error that causes the four problems I mentioned above. There must be a common denominator to them. It might be a low insulation error somewhere which you already suggested causing the faults but I am just guessing. Or a broken relais? Or a poorly functioning pressure switch? One capacitor that cannot be fully charged any more? Let's see...

[Mikael Bäckstöm]

Dear Andy, it seems that the motor sometimes hasn't the power anymore to start the first spin after the wet clothes have been lying in the tub for a short while. The tub is 2/3 full of clothes. No especially large items. The motor turns the tub around 15 degrees, but fails to turn and suddenly shuts off (too high load on the motor?), turns on and tries to turn the tub again etc.. If I am helping the motor by turning the drum pully belt wheel behind the washer, decreasing the needed momentum the motor must generate during the first turn, the motor doesn't turn off and carries on with the work afterwards.

I checked the carbon brushes and they are still around 35 mm long. I cleaned the area on the motor axis with the rough side of a cleaning sponge. I inspected the belt too if it starts to slip during a high load where the motor turns off but I didn't notice this. What do you think? I suspect that the motor capacitor cannot take the full charge anymore and therefore the motor power has decreased. I should measure the capacitance. I will not replace the motor because this would cost me GBP 110. Thank you for your assistance!

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

Carbon brushes or a slipping belt can all cause that but at least one the brushes would need to be charred, or the belt would need to be visibly quite slack. It may be electrical. If it has carbon brushes it shouldn't have a starting capacitor, it's all controlled by the pcb or module if fitted. It could just be a component but we engineers are never taught about the pcbs workings. We just replace them. Have you checked for dry joints, and poor connections on the pcb and inside the motor plug and harness?

[Mikael Bäckstöm]

Hi Andy, thank you for the advice, I'll check for dry solder joints and bad connections. With "motor capacitor" I mean the mains filter suppressor, please see

https://www.ransomspares.co.uk/parts/brands/hoover/washing-machines/hnwf6167-88m (31000796)/mains-filter-suppressor/123291.htm

If it is gone, the motor doesn't turn at all any more. If the component is starting to break down, I suppose that the motor also is partly loosing power too (but I may be wrong on this). I noticed now that the part has an inductive component too. I'll check the part if I can get access to the corresponding equipment. Thank you.

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

Hi Mikael. Aye that's just a suppressor to suppress radio interference and can't affect the motor as far as I know. They can even be bypassed out but not advisable because you could interfere with tv and radios in your house and neighbours too.

[Mikael Bäckstöm]

Hi Andy, I checked the three PCBs (washer, dryer and the power supply unit), every single component, solder joint, every connection and I couldn't find anything suspicious... Afterwards, i washed 60 degrees cotton and I basically still have the same problem as before. There won't be any quick fix and I must look for a new washer. Best regards Mikael

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

A long shot but what does the timer do if you try starting a cycle on one of the dots or lines that indicate a stop ie program finished? And if you put it on a spin only cycle what does it do?

[Mikael Bäckstöm]

Well, after a program has finished, the timer had stopped somewhere on the 360 degrees scale depending on the program, as it should do. When I start a new program, the timer first turns to the point where the chosen program starts. As I already mentioned, there are different cases: the 90 degrees cotton program turns off at once after the timer has reached the start position and I cannot turn it on again. The 40 and 60 degrees cotton programs stop on the same spot where the 90 degrees cotton program stopped, but starts again and the timer turns a bit, stops again etc. ten times (60 degrees cotton program) / five times (40 degrees cotton program). Then, I can turn on the program again and the wash cycle starts. Sometimes, the program reaches the rinse cycle. If not, I have to use the rinse programs in combination with the fast spin program. The fast wash programs work (more or less) fine if I don't wash with full capacity.

When I put on a spin only cycle, it starts but here the motor is often too weak to perform the first turn of the wet laundry and I have to help the motor by hand. Otherwise the motor shuts off and thereafter turns on and tries again to spin. When the motor managed to do the first spin with my help, the program works thereafter since the needed motor torque from spinning the wet clothes has gone down because the water content of the clothes decreased as a result of the centrifugal force. Then, the fast spin cycle works until it is finished.

Generally speaking, I think that the motor shuts off when the motor cannot produce a certain needed torque to spin the wet wash. Therefore, I thought about connecting a starter capacitor to the motor which would increase the motor torque at the start. However, without a full circuit diagram, I don't have a clue what the side effects will be on the components in the PCBs etc, so I stopped this "motor tuning" process...