Samsung Quickdrive Noise

[patz91]

Hi there,

 

Slightly odd one so hopefully someone can help!

 

My 13 month old Samsung Quickdrive washing machine with Digital Inverter Motor has started making fairly loud noises when the drum is rotating very slowly (1 rotation =  20seconds). Just before the spin cycle, the drum rotates very slowly 3 times; anticlockwise, clockwise and anticlockwise; which is a normal feature. However, at this point there is a loud clunking/clanging sound from the very rear of the washer. This noise happens regardless of whether the washer is empty or has a light or heavy load. The drum appears to jerk slightly when starting to turn slowly. The clunk then occurs just before it starts spinning

During the calibration program, the drum rotates alternately anti clockwise and clockwise 4 times. Each time this happens, the clunk is present just before it starts rotating and just before it stops

There's also a clunk just before the drum stops rotating during the cycle - also present during no load, light and heavy loads

 

There are no new or abnormal noises when the drum is spinning or rotating normally smoothly during a wash, so I'd assume it's not due to a coin or something in the outer tub. In fact, every time the noise is coming from right at the back of the washing machine

There is no movement if I try and lift the drum from the inside so I assume not a bearing issue either

 

I have a few recordings of the noises:

https://vocaroo.com/iAbhiqfSO8m

(When rotating very slowly (20 seconds = 1 rotation). At 01:05, you can faintly hear the clunk as the drum starts the main spin and again at 01:29. At 01:50 you can hear it pick up speed)

 

https://vocaroo.com/oWB4PUcqhxb

(During calibration, noise when the drum starts to rotate and just before it completely stops)

 

https://vocaroo.com/1aOnL4TjAgM

(During standard cycle with light load. First rotating clockwise then anticlockwise. Clunk heard just before it completely stops turning)

 

It is a bit of a weird one, so very much appreciated if anyone can help!

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

Hi: It sounds like drum bearings have gone. The noise is similar to this? What do noisy drum bearings sound like?

Take off the drive belt and spin by hand like in the video on the link above.

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

The first noise also reminds me of a loose drum pulley.

[patz91]

Thanks for replying, Andy.

 

It’s a different noise to the noisy drum bearing one in the video. It’s not a rumbling noise

When I turn the drum by hand, there’s no noise at all coming from anywhere in the machine, neither from the drum assembly nor motor. It’s totally silent.
The noise is only when the machine applies power 

 

I tried lifting the drum from the door seal but it seems very firm - maybe only 1mm play

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

Hi. Yes it was no where near as bad but sounded like a gentler version which can be the drum bearings starting to rumble in early stages. However, your description of no play in drum and no sound on spinning by hand implies it's not the drum bearings.

Have you taken off the drive belt to see if the noise stops? Could it be the motor?

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

Also does it make similar noises if you disconnect t from the mains and take the lid off then shake the drum about and up and down? In other words is it something loose somewhere that makes a noise once the washing machine starts moving about on spin?

[patz91]

Thanks Andy,

 

Actually the noise seems to be louder than the noise in the drum bearing video. I can hear the noise 2 floors up after the drain pump switches off

 

Possibly the recording I uploaded has quietened the sound down

 

I've uploaded a video to YouTube which will hopefully make it a bit clearer, although you may need to turn the sound up quite a bit. The noise is clearest after the drain pump switches off after 00:21

 

Edited February 25, 2020 by patz91

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

Hello. It sounds like something is definitely knocking, it also appears that the drum is struggling to turn. Are you sure there is no play in the motor shaft? That could mean that it runs okay with no belt attached but as soon as the belt is attached and it pulls on the shaft it can cause the rotor or armature to catch. If there is definitely no playing the drum at all apart from the normal millimetres or so and the drum pulley at the back where the belt is attached is definitely not loose on the shaft then it has to be something wrong with the motor I would say.

[patz91]

Hi,

 

My initial thought was the motor too.

 

It doesn't actually struggle to turn normally during a wash cycle or spin.

The fact that it's turning so slowly at this particular point before spinning is a normal feature of the machine. Presumably it is either measuring the load when wet before spinning or it's trying to get rid of any water it can before spinning. Once it starts to spin, there is no noise apart from the usual drain pump

 

I have another video of the drum during the main cycle where just before it stops rotating, it makes a loud clunk (which happens when the drum is empty too).  It's a fairly light load of about 3kg.

No abnormal noise whilst rotating at normal speeds

 

(Again please turn the volume up)

 

 

Edited February 25, 2020 by patz91

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

Hello there. I honestly can't think of anything that would account for such a blatant noise to be so undetectable by investigating as we have already done. For the noise to be that clunky and loud there has to be something somewhere that is quite badly loose. If you can't detect it by thoroughly checking the drum and pulling it up and down at each of the drum paddle points (in case there is a crack in the drum spider) or by checking for playing the motor, a loose or worn drum pulley and it does not make any noise when you bounce and shake the drum (looking for loose drum weights, loose bolts etc then nothing in my experience accounts for how it could make such clunking noises. If it sounds okay on spin then it is likely to be something that is loose but comes out of play once there is enough centrifugal force.

[patz91]

It really is an odd one! 
 

I'm wondering if there could be an issue with the magnets in the motor. Since the noise appears half a second before the drum stops as in the second video, possibly the motor applies some sort of braking force which is what causes the noise?

 

The extremely slow rotation in the first video above could be the motor doing tens of stops and starts in the 20 seconds it takes to do 1 rotation

 

I have also found out that the drum has ball bearings around the edge which are controlled by magnets (the technology is called VRT-M) which apparently is to help with balancing the drum during spin, so it could be that there is some sort of failure there

Having said that, the drum ball bearings are supposed to be at the front whereas the noise is coming from the back

 

Very strange indeed!

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

It just sounds like something is very loose. Are you sure you can't hear anything when you rag the outer drum about and shake and bounce it up and down and side to side (with lid and mains off)?

[patz91]

2 hours ago, Whitegoodshelp (Andy) said:

It just sounds like something is very loose. Are you sure you can't hear anything when you rag the outer drum about and shake and bounce it up and down and side to side (with lid and mains off)?

Absolutely positive

 

Samsung support via email, as expected, were useless despite me sending the video above. They seem to think it's just a quiet clicking noise which the machine should  make normally to check the door is locked before filling up!!? Clearly they didn't see the Drain/Spin program selected

If they think that's normal, I dread to think what classifies as a serious fault to them!

 

I've pretty much had enough and am currently thinking about using my final right to reject under the Consumer Rights Act. This washing machine is actually a replacement since the original that I received was faulty and I replaced it within a week of receiving it. If I understand the CRA correctly, I only have to allow for one repair or replacement before using the final right to reject.

The retailer (John Lewis) will presumably want me to get an independent engineer's report since it's over 6 months old and hopefully the engineer will find what the issue is.

Anyone have experience on what John Lewis are like at dealing with final right to reject cases?

 

(Andy, don't know if you'd prefer me to start a thread under the Consumer issues forum or continue posting on this one to keep other users updated on the case?)

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

Hello there. Yes ideally consumer related issues should be in the consumer forum but I don't mind in this case. I thought Samsung washing machines and five year guarantees? Are they not going to look at it under their guarantee? If the guarantee is only just run out and was only 12 month then you should still be to claim against the retailer under the consumer rights act 2015. They will always tell you that there's nothing can be done because it is now out of guarantee, but that's a blatant lie. If you have a genuine case then they are obliged to compensate with a free repair. It's very unlikely that any retailer will allow someone to reject a washing machine after 13 months the first time it is broken down unless the fault that has occurred is extremely serious, or something that should never have happened. Even then you will have to fight.

[patz91]

Actually, this washing machine has an 11 year warranty (the whole machine, not just the 10 years on the motor).  I only wanted to email Samsung tech support first to find out if anyone there had any ideas what it could be

 

I spoke just now to Citizens Advice consumer helpline and their reply:

- Under CRA, I only have to accept either one repair OR one replacement;

- The retailer has already replaced the washing machine because the first one they delivered was faulty (same model);

- Therefore I do not need to accept a repair if I don't want to. Under CRA I can use final right to reject for a refund (with some deduction made for 1 year of use)

[patz91]

Just to provide an update, I had a visit from the Samsung engineer and after checking over the machine at the back, he confirmed that the motor is faulty and needs to be totally replaced. There's an issue with the magnets inside the motor itself which was causing the terrible noise 

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

Many thanks for the update. It will be very helpful for others to see your video and the explanation.

[patz91]

Just thought I’d provide an update on this 3 months on from the Consumer Rights side.

John Lewis accepted the claim for a partial refund of the Samsung and offered some money back. They took off the equivalent of 1 year’s use. The refund would be processed once they took the washing machine back

 

Unfortunately by that time, we had lockdown so they couldn’t come and collect it and install a new washing machine. I was left stuck with the Samsung for two and a half months more. Thankfully, the machine lasted that time despite the terrible noises

 

Two weeks ago, John Lewis started offering installation services for those classed by the government as vulnerable to Coronavirus (which I am) and so they were able to come and collect the Samsung and install the new one

 

After all the problems I had with the Samsung, I decided I would switch to a completely different, higher quality brand, so I am now the proud owner of a Miele with a 10 year guarantee.

 

Here’s hoping for many, many years of trouble free laundry!

 

Thanks for your help and suggestions with this, Andy.

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

Many thanks for updating.