Zanussi zwj14591w tripping RCD

[4lps]

Hi All

This week we have experience a problem with our Zanussi washing machine after 20 minutes.

* I have check the Heating element with a voltmeter which shows 26.6  (could they still be a fault with this)

* I tested the machine without the Water connect on 2 difference cycles and it ran with any problems & no tripping.

* I drained the water and re- tested it after after 10 minutes the power tripped, switch the RCD back on and it keeps tripping instantly within 15 secs

 

Can anyone help with what i can test next or what the possible problem could be. Whilst it was on in the first 10 minutes i check for leaks and couldn't really see any.

Once suggestion was a Float switch, any advise on this?

Look forward to your suggestions.

 

Many Thanks

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

Hi. You need an insulation test meter or you can’t diagnose a tripping electrics fault. 

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

I do have some useful advice here though Fusing electrics

[4lps]

Hi Guys

Thanks for the tips. I do have insulation Voltmeter so that will help diagnose anything you guys advise.

I have been working through the list to check. So far the

*Motor seems fine

*Element reading 26.6

*checked for pipes leaking on to electrical parts

 

The pump was dirty so I have cleaned all that and put it back together.

I need to test The suppressor (once I can locate it)

 

Many Thanks

 

 

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

1 minute ago, 4lps said:

I do have insulation Voltmeter so that will help diagnose anything you guys advise.

Hi. An insulation test meter? (Often called a Megger) One that puts 500 volts through parts to test for electrical insulation leaks? 

[4lps]

Hi 

 

Yes I have a Megger Bmm503

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

Good. It should be very easy to find what’s tripping the electrics using the megger and my article. 

[4lps]

Thanks Andy, i will go through everything one by one.

I know which setting to use for the Heating element. Which setting do i need to leak for leaks? is it the same one

 

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

All the insulation test meters I’ve used have just had 2 settings. One for continuity testing and one for insulation testing which puts 500 volts (DC) through the parts. If yours has more options try to find a manual online. 

[4lps]

Thanks Andy, 

 

I have now cleaned the pump and put everything back together.

It still runs without the water filling.

So connected the water and now the water isn't filling (doh)..

I will have a look at that otherwise call it a day

 

[4lps]

Hi Guys

 

I disconnect the heating element and ran the machine. At the RCD didn't trip, so even though I got a continuity reading of 26.6.

By disconnect the + Pos and -Neg from the heating element and taping up the wires, and  running the cycle was a good test.

However I have a leak when running the cycle. I disconnect the 2 hoses on the filter/Pump. Not sure what i have done to cause the leak. Maybe there's a pipe i have disturbed.

Pictures attached. Any advise 

 

 

Edited October 15, 2019 by 4lps
duplicate

[4lps]

update: I did disconnect the Tub Sump hose and now wondering if its that.

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

Yes anything that you have disturbed is the number one suspect. I can't help you find the leak specifically but I have some very good general advice about troubleshooting a leaking washing machine 

Regarding the tripping the electrics. Have you tested the heating element with the mega? You appear to keep quoting resistance readings, are they readings between the two terminals? If so that only tests to see if the heating element has continuity. To test for leaks to earth which can cause the electrics to trip you need to put 500 V DC between the Earth connector and each element terminal in turn with all wires disconnected from it. There should be no reading at all, or potentially a very very minor reading might be acceptable but if you get a full reading then you have got a direct short to earth, which will trip the electrics as soon as the element is energised.

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

Also remember never to work on the washing machine when it is plugged in. Don't go poking around looking for the leak with it plugged in :-)

[4lps]

Hi Andy

I have 2 test settings on my meter, when put on 500V i get 0

 

On the K (n) test testing, when i connect the Earth individually on one I get a reading on 0, the other connector i get 19,9

Its not tripping since wires are disconnected, as you has you connect and start it trips.

 

 

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

If it stops tripping the electrics when you disconnect the heating element then it strongly implies the heating element is faulty. It's not 100% because theoretically the neutral return wire could be shorting against something and once the wire is disconnected there is no more power running through it. However, that scenario is quite unlikely. There are only two things that could possibly cause a heating element to trip the electrics. One is if it is down to earth, otherwise known as low insulation, where electricity running through the heating element leaks to earth due to a breakdown in the insulation.

This fault can only be detected using an insulation test meter (or megger). If the insulation breakdown is severe enough then it can even be detected with the normal continuity test meter but there are lower levels of an insulation breakdown that will not be picked up by continuity test meter that can cause the washing machine to trip and they can only be tested with the megger. If you press the megger insulation button and touch the two connectors together you should see the needle shoot right over or if it is digital you should see something like 0:0. If you get your fingers in the way you will receive a nasty shock.

So when the wires are apart and the button is pressed the meter should show no connection, and when they are touched together you should get a reading. When you connect one of the wires to the earth and one to 1 of the element connections you should get the same reading as you do when the two connectors are a part. That is, no circuit. You should get the same reading on the other heating element connection.

If putting 500 V DC through the element and to earth shows no reading then the insulation must be okay and this is not the cause of the washing machine tripping. The only other thing that can cause an element to trip the electrics as if the element itself is shorting out, usually due to corrosion. I've seen cases where the heating element is completely corroded through. This would be detected using the continuity test meter across both the live and neutral of the heating element. Normally the resistance of the entire element would be a specific reading but if the element has broken the reading would be quite different. I have another article about heating elements which advises about testing and element and gives a rough idea of the expected continuity reading between the two connections here - Washing machine heating element faults

[4lps]

Thanks Andy, I will got through the above and read the article. Thanks

 

In regards to the water, i will take another look at the sump hose

[4lps]

Hi Andy

 

I followed your steps above

 

I then got my camera phone and took a video around the pipe. It seems i was 3 mm out and the marker marks helped me locate the exact position along with your link above. I can successfully confirm the Leak has stopped.

So now I need to re-run through the electrical tips above and ensure its not a neural problem before a new element is ordered.

 

Many Thanks