Miele Vs Bosch - New Which? Reliability Report

[slamdunk]

Hi,

I've read a lot of useful information on this forum so firstly thanks! However I'm still having trouble deciding between buying a Miele washer/dryer over and a Bosch. Here's my reservation:

1. According to this new report from Which? Bosch are only 1% different from Miele in terms of reliability (92% versus 93% respectively):

2. Engineer call-out fees are more or less the same for the two brands:

3. Parts for the Miele are likely to be more expensive:

4. I'm not going to buy an extended warranty because I don't believe they are cheaper in the end:

5. Therefore I'm going to be paying repair bills myself after 1 year because Miele are not offering a 5 year warranty (that I read they were) at this time.

If all these sources of information are correct then to summarise; the Miele will breakdown as much as the Bosch, cost the same amount in engineer callouts and cost more for spares.

In which case I can't see how people make a financial case for a Miele.

Unless... Are replacement parts for the Miele more granular than for the Bosch? For example, on my 6 year old Bosch the dryer fan has failed - cost to replace £161. Would replacing the fan on a new Miele cost more or would you not have to replace the whole fan unit? If they're not more granular and the chances of failure of any one component is the same for the Miele as for the Bosch (as suggested by point 1 above) then the Miele will work out more expensive to maintain because I will have to do the £161 fan replacement to make it last the 15 or 20 years to my break-even point rather than writing the machine off. Does that make sense?

Is there something else I'm missing?

Thanks.

D.

[uumode]

Other things to consider

the report was for 6 year old machines, if the period was extended to 15 years the reliability outcome might be different.

But it depends how long you intend to keep a machine.

'If' the Miele endurance testing and lab testing is to believed then it might last better.

Other than reliability, Miele machines clean and rinse better than Bosch I think, but AEG gives it a run for it's money (according to the Which? reviews)

Miele, like my Mercedes will probably incur very expensive bills if it does break down.

£200+ for a spark plug change

£800 for a major service

(Mercedes not Miele )

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

Sorry for the delay in replying. I put this one aside because it looked like it needed a lot of time to reply to and things got very busy.

 

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I've read a lot of useful information on this forum so firstly thanks! However I'm still having trouble deciding between buying a Miele washer/dryer over and a Bosch. Here's my reservation:

1. According to this new report from Which? Bosch is only 1% different from Miele in terms of reliability (92% versus 93% respectively)

This is a good question. The report you mention is a useful piece in the information jigsaw but as always we have to be careful with statistics as they can give strange results, and a certain amount of interpretation is needed to decide how useful they are. Which? say that the table is compiled from, The manufacturers that have the best reliability according to our members and although that's extremely interesting to see I do have a problem with it in that each manufacturers reliability percentage is derived from a totally different sample. So to me its not really a fair comparison.

If you look at the numbers in brackets at the side of each manufacturer listed you can see that there's a potentially distorting difference. I'm no statistician, but the numbers sampled can have a significant effect on end percentages. If you have 100 people owning a washing machine, and 10 of them have problems then its 10%, but if you have 200 people and 10 of them have problems its only 5%. The same results from just 2 people would be 50%. The Tricity Bendix figures, which show as the most reliable washing machine are derived from just 93 people, whereas the Miele sample was 393 and the Bosh sample was 2,104. Because the samples are all different I cant see how this table can be 100% reliable.

Having said that, if a washing machine is particularly reliable or particularly unreliable it is likely to be handicapped in such a table and generally speaking I think it works out relatively representative of my experience of the reliability of washing machines albeit with a few anomalies. I don't believe that Tricity Bendix washing machines at 199 are more reliable than a Miele, Siemens or Bosh, but I do believe its probably the most reliable budget washing machine (unfortunately discontinued now in the UK)

Another anomaly is that Tricity Bendix beats Zanussi in the reliability table (who appear only halfway down), yet Tricity Bendix washing machines are only budget versions of Zanussi washing machines made by the same (Electrolux) group so you'd expect them to have the same reliability. One possible explanation (other than the very small sample size used for Tricity Bendix) is that as budget washing machines, the Tricity Bendix brand is less complex, and therefore could be more reliable than the supposedly better quality Zanussi they are derived from. In fairness, if Tricity Bendix was particularly unreliable, a small sample size would work against it creating a larger percentage of people with problems so I'm happy to accept that Tricity Bendix may be very reliable for the price.

Finally, Candy is 6% above Hoover yet Hoover and Candy are fundamentally the same washing machines made by the same group with Hoover being the slightly more up-market product and supposed to be slightly better built.

Washing machine manufacturers labour charges are all fairly similar and surprisingly, the better quality washing machine manufacturers often charge no more or even less than some of the much cheaper brands.

 

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3. Parts for the Miele are likely to be more expensive:

Spare parts are likely to cost more for a quality washing machine but again there are ridiculous anomalies. Many cheap brands like Servis and Whirlpool for example can have extortionately high spare parts prices, which can make their appliances virtually irreparable at times. An example of this is a Whirlpool AWZ241 vented dryer where a replacement control module costs (trade price) 178.56 - inc VAT) yet a brand new direct replacement machine delivered to any UK mainland address could be found on the internet for just 155.00. Miele parts should be more expensive than Bosch spare parts although better quality too.

 

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4. I'm not going to buy an extended warranty because I don't believe they are cheaper in the end

I agree. What you need to know about extended warranties

 

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5. Therefore I'm going to be paying repair bills myself after 1 year because Miele are not offering a 5 year warranty (that I read they were) at this time.

Miele currently offer a 2 year guarantee on some washing machines and a 10 year guarantee on the more expensive range.

 

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If all these sources of information are correct then to summarise; the Miele will breakdown as much as the Bosch, cost the same amount in engineer call-outs and cost more for spares. In which case I can't see how people make a financial case for a Miele.

I doubt that Bosch are virtually as reliable as a Miele because the higher the sample, the more accurate the end percentage result is, and the Miele sample of 393 is much lower than the 2,104 Bosch sample. I would expect that if 2,104 Miele washing machine owners were sampled, the reliability percentage would increase.

However its an interesting conclusion, and Bosch is definitely a decent washing machine with a good reputation for reliability, and its much cheaper than a Miele but not as well made. The theory is that a Miele washing machine should last 20 years, so you could need 2 or 3 Bosch's in that time because the problem with all cheap washing machines is they aren't economically repairable if the motor, drum bearings or program PCB fail so they commonly get scrapped well before their potential lifespan is up.

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