Bosch WAN24100GB tripping mains on spin

[Rollcage]

Hello Andy.

I can't believe that I'm making another thread for my new washer after the problems I've had - just when I thought everything was finally ok now this happens.

I thought it be better to make a new thread to avoid any confusion.

So I've had a Bosch WAN24100GB VarioPerfect washing machine for just under a month, and it was working fine until today. It was running on its 60 Cottons programme, and when it came to do its final spin, the machine suddenly cut out and tripped the mains in the process. I reset the mains, the machine came back on and attempted to continue with the final spin from where it abruptly stopped. The drum started spinning up and it cut out again. I reset the mains again, turned off the machine and decided to the run the Spin programme at the 1200 max rpm. Once again, the drum started to speed up and then tripped the mains. I tried several times, and got the same result on each occasion.

I turned off the machine, took the wet clothes out, and left it for 30 minutes. I tried the Spin programme again at 1200rpm with an empty drum, and it completed without tripping the mains. So - once again - it seems I have an intermittent fault.

I've contacted Bosch and booked an engineer to verify the fault. I was just wondering if you have any ideas about what the problem could be? Faulty component? Overheating?

The machine switches on fine. It seems to only trip the mains during the spin phase when loaded with washing. When I left it for 30 minutes and tried the Spin programme with an empty drum it completed with no problems.

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

Wow. It’s a proper bad run you are having. Good call on staring a new thread. It makes the most sense. 

If a washing machine trips the electrics with a load in, but is ok when empty it could be coincidental, but the first thing I’d suspect is a wire catching on something causing it to trip. When spinning with a load inside the main drum shakes and moves around. It can also bounce from side to side. If there is a chafed wire somewhere, or a bare electrical connector close to something metal then that’s when it could touch and short out. 

Another possibility is a small leak that runs onto something to cause it to trip the electrics. Again due to the shaking and bouncing around with a load inside it can be something that doesn’t happen with no laundry inside. 

The only other explanation I can think of is if there was an unusual fault on the motor that wasn’t causing a trip when not under load with laundry inside. With this scenario though I’d expect it to be labouring, or making an unusual noise or giving off an electrical smell. 

None of these possibilities should be happening on a washing machine under a month old. Apart from potentially if something from a pocket like a small coin had got loose inside the drum and cracked the plastic outer tub causing a leak. 

I look forward to finding out what it is. 

[Rollcage]

2 minutes ago, Whitegoodshelp (Andy) said:

Wow. It’s a proper bad run you are having. Good call on staring a new thread. It makes the most sense. 

If a washing machine trips the electrics with a load in, but is ok when empty it could be coincidental, but the first thing I’d suspect is a wire catching on something causing it to trip. When spinning with a load inside the main drum shakes and moves around. It can also bounce from side to side. If there is a chafed wire somewhere, or a bare electrical connector close to something metal then that’s when it could touch and short out. 

Another possibility is a small leak that runs onto something to cause it to trip the electrics. Again due to the shaking and bouncing around with a load inside it can be something that doesn’t happen with no laundry inside. 

The only other explanation I can think of is if there was an unusual fault on the motor that wasn’t causing a trip when not under load with laundry inside. With this scenario though I’d expect it to be labouring, or making an unusual noise or giving off an electrical smell. 

None of these possibilities should be happening on a washing machine under a month old. Apart from potentially if something from a pocket like a small coin had got loose inside the drum and cracked the plastic outer tub causing a leak. 

I look forward to finding out what it is. 

 

Thanks for swift reply Andy.
I really still can't believe that I'm having to deal with more washing machine problems today. Thanks for the suggestions; well I've got it running again on the 60C Cottons cycle with the same wash, and it has just come to the end of the cycle - it completed the final spin and has just started beeping to indicate it has completed.

So it really does seem like I'm dealing with an intermittent fault again. I stupidly forgot to video the fault and was hoping to recreate it with the wash cycle that I've just completed. I noticed when it tripped earlier today that the clothes were bouncing around a lot more. The load was slightly lighter than my usual wash load, but not by much. So perhaps the drum was catching something. It ran fine on empty. No burning smells.

What I am worried about now is that the engineer is going to give it the all clear when he looks at it. I really don't feel comfortable living with a machine that intermittently trips the mains. 

Is there anything I can ask him to look at specifically to verify the fault? I fear he is just going to run the Spin programme with an empty drum and say everything is ok when it completes successfully.

Is there a chance that trips were a "one off" and that the machine is fine? Or does that the fact it tripped the mains several times definitely mean something is not right, whether that's a rogue wire, small leak etc.

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

Keep testing it with heavier loads. If one caused it to trip keep it in the drum for the engineer to test and make sure he fills it with water before testing on spin. 

[Rollcage]

7 minutes ago, Whitegoodshelp (Andy) said:

Keep testing it with heavier loads. If one caused it to trip keep it in the drum for the engineer to test and make sure he fills it with water before testing on spin. 

Do you think it's ok to keep testing it, now that I've reported the fault? Just worried something catastrophic may happen (the fault must be significant since it trips the mains), and then the retailer will say you knowingly continued to use a faulty machine we can't help etc.  

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

I can’t see it, but without knowing what is wrong I wouldn’t try to persuade you. If it trips the electrics (as opposed to blowing a fuse) then it trips safely and in milliseconds. That’s the purpose of modern RCD boards.

If you decide not to run it again make sure you have the same load that did it in the first place in the drum or one similar in weight for testing. The first thing an engineer should do is test the machine with an insulation test meter. Then thoroughly check for signs of a leak or any wires that could be catching. Then put the washing machine on rinse to wet the laundry and finally test it on full spin. 

If they don’t do all that they haven’t tried to find the fault. If they do, but find nothing and it doesn’t trip there’s nothing more they can do. If they try to charge you saying there is no fault refuse to pay and remind them that it tripped the electrics and you didn’t imagine it and how many times it did it. Tell them that if they cannot find an intermittent fault that in no way proves there is no fault. 

[Rollcage]

Thanks for the valuable advice, Andy.

My knowledge is very limited when it comes to electrical matters. Having read your post, I feel better equipped to know what to ask and look out for when the engineer comes round on Saturday. I'm not even going to bother speculate what it could be as it completed a 60C Cotton wash and final spin @ 1200rpm with the problematic laundry load when I tried it again earlier this evening.

I just hope John Lewis won't fob me off because the fault appears to be intermittent. I'm tempted to try to recreate it again just so I can capture some video evidence.

I'll probably give it a miss though.

I guess I'll have to see what the engineer says; I'll keep you updated.
 

[Rollcage]

Hello Andy. Just updating the thread.
So I had the Bosch engineer around on Saturday. I explained how the machine tripped the RCD when attempting to spin up and also mentioned the start button issue where I had to press the Start button several times if I made changes to a programme's defaults (changing rpm, temperature etc). He pulled the machine out, unplugged it and checked the mains socket it was plugged into - by plugging in a device with a bunch of lights on it. He told me the device told him that socket was ok, but it didn't mean the wiring wasn't faulty.

He then pulled out the machine's soap drawer and got out a boxy unit with an LCD screen on it. He stuck a wire underneath the soap drawer and told me all the elements checked out ok. He then plugged the machine into the box and plugged the box into a different mains socket in my kitchen. He then explained how he was going to test the machine by spinning a wet laundry load and how the the LCD unit would show if there any problems. I gave him a similarly sized laundry load (as you advised), and he set the machine on the rinse cycle with the aqua wash (extra water) enabled to wet the clothes. He then put it on the spin programme at the max 1200rpm. We both watched the machine start up and go onto spin. The machine gradually increased the rpms, going to the maximum in the last 5-7 minutes. The engineer pointed out that if the machine were at fault then it would have cut out by now, especially when it hit the maximum rpm. The spin programme went on to complete succesfully, without tripping the RCD.

Based on this successful test, the engineer told me that he was happy that there were no faults with the machine. He said if there was, the big box with the LCD screen would have picked up on it. He said it is what is more likely is that there is a problem with the mains socket that the machine was plugged into - worn or faulty wiring. I asked again why such a fault wouldn't show on the device he plugged into it and he said it won't pick up faulty worn wiring.
He advised me to use a different mains socket from now on and to get an electrician to look at the original mains socket.  He didn't open the machine up at all. I put your suggestions forward: what about leaks, internal wires catching etc and he said it's unlikely. I asked about the start button issue, and he said it's just a "double confirmation" feature and dismissed it as a fault.

So off he went, and I thought ok perhaps it's the mains socket. So I left it plugged in to the new socket. Fast foward to today, I fill the machine up with a laundry load (with the drum 3/4 full). I set it on the Cottons programme, temperature at 60C, and lowered the final spin rpm to 1000 to be on the safe side. I ignored the fact I had to press start twice as the engineer told me it was a double confirmation feature.  I left the machine and it completed the programme (including final spin) with no problems in just over an hour and 40 minutes. It didn't trip the mains. I felt relieved and thought maybe it really was the original mains socket. I normally run the spin cycle after a wash cycle - just to remove the excess water. So I set the machine on to the spin programme, dialled down the rpm to 1000, removed the aqua wash setting and pressed start.

Once again I ignored that I had to press start twice and the 13 minute spin programme started. And just when the machine started to spin up at around 9 minutes, it tripped the RCD. I just could not believe it. I reset the RCD, got my phone and started filming. I put the machine on spin again, set the rpm to 1000 and pressed start. I was forced to press start 3 times to begin the programme. This time, it completed successfully without tripping , so I tried spin again (straight away) and this time I had to press start twice. Once again it completed without tripping. I tried spin again and this time I only had to press start once for it to begin. It completed without tripping. I tried spin one more time to try to capture an RCD trip on video and it didn't trip. 

So it really seems to be tripping intermittently. I managed to capture the fact that I had to press start a different number of times just to begin the same programme on each occasion. I've contacted John Lewis today to tell them that I am experiencing problems despite the engineer's all clear diagnosis. They advised me to contact Bosch to arrange another engineer visit to identify the fault. I explained that it is intermittent, but John Lewis said they need Bosch to tell them [John Lewis] that there is a fault before they can consider an exchange. So it looks as if I will have to contact Bosch again tomorrow

It's just really depressing. I find it hard to believe that my mains sockets are at fault. Granted it's old wiring, but to suddenly have the RCD trip like this is very ununsual. I can't even remember the last time my RCD tripped before I got this Bosch. It hasn't happened for many years. I've never had a washing machine trip the electrics, the old Bosch I had didn't, the awful cheap Kenwood didn't and the more recent and more powerful 1400rpm LG Titan didn't. It only started happening with this Bosch machine. Today I tried a 2000W hairdryer on the socket that the machine is plugged in to and it did not trip the RCD. I boil a kettle everyday in my kitchen (albeit on different socket) which draws about 2000W-3000W and it doesn't trip.  

I'm just starting to worry now whether it's just this machine or something else. The thing is it just seems so random. I tried the spin four times after it tripped today and it completed it on each occasion without tripping (with the wet washing inside).

Just wondering what your thoughts are on this? Do you think it's the machine or something else?

 

Edit: information from Bosch engineer's report

E.Cont Appl. 0.04Ohm
Polarity test: Passed
Insulation: 20 M Ohm
Electricity safety tests: Passed
Voltage: 247v
Gas tightness: Passed
Equivalent Leakage: (no figure given) m Ampere
Pressure test (no figure given) mbar
Microwave leak test: Passed
Description of work carried out:
Inspected appliance carried out full safety check all ok. Removed from socket and tested appliance on different socket. Functional test all ok. Earth & Pol only.
Advised faulty socket.

 

 

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

Regarding it being unlikely that there is a leak or a wire snagging, I totally agree that it is unlikely. I'd even say it's very unlikely on a brand-new washing machine. But a good engineer does not discount anything just because it is unlikely. You can only discount the impossible. Obviously as an engineer you don't immediately jump to the unlikely possibilities first, you check the most likely, but if nothing can be found you need to start eliminating the less likely possibilities. Diagnosis is all about eliminating all possible causes -  particularly when dealing with intermittent faults. Sadly it's likely to be down to pressures of time that these guys are under. I certainly could not hack it as a manufacturers engineer these days. I simply couldn't work to their time constraints trying to fit in so many jobs in one day. I would probably be out till 10 o'clock every night trying to finish all my jobs because I'm taking too long.

According to the insulation reading you quoted the insulation test meter is giving a reading. It looks like yours is showing 20 M Ohm. If I remember rightly the maximum reading allowed is about 2 M Ohms. So technically he would be correct in saying it is within acceptable limits. It may be within acceptable limits, but on a brand-new washing machine I would not be expecting any leakage to earth at all. It's possible that your RCD is very sensitive and this insulation reading of 20 M Ohm is causing a problem. Or at some stages during the cycle the reading is changing to more critical levels. Having said that, it's not possible to completely rule out an issue with your RCD board. But if there was a fault there you would expect other appliances such as irons, tumble dryers, dishwashers, or cooking rings to also be causing the problem.

Regarding the test meter not picking anything up - I would say that is what he should have expected to see and using it as evidence nothing is wrong is flawed. If a washing machine is tripping the electrics intermittently, then clearly any engineer testing it with a meter will find nothing wrong. That is obvious. It will read perfectly okay because it isn't tripping the electrics. It will only give a reading that shows something wrong when it has tripped the electrics, or in the preceding milliseconds before.  So if I was being called out for an appliance that was tripping the electrics intermittently I would 100% expect to find nothing wrong when I put my insulation test meter on it. Therefore after carrying out the obligatory electrical checks the first thing an engineer needs to do is pull the washing machine out, take off the back panel if fitted and the lid, and physically check the machine for signs of things that might be catching. This is particularly necessary if the report is that it only ever trips out during spin with certain loads. That is precisely the symptoms that would happen if there was anything catching. If this is very unlikely it is still a potential cause of the fault that fits in with all the symptoms which has now not been eliminated. 

So the only way you would expect to find a bad reading on first inspection is if the fault that you were describing is that every time you turn on the washing machine the electrics trip. The fact that it can go through complete wash and spin cycles without tripping would mean that any insulation test readings taken are likely to show nothing. At least he tested it with laundry inside, and let them get wet to make them heavy. But as he didn't pull it out and look inside he's not eliminated anything at all and only found a reading that wouldn't trip the electrics - which is exactly what you would expect to find because the fault is intermittent.

[Rollcage]

Really appreciate your thoughts regarding the initial diagnosis, Andy.
The engineer was gone in about 30 minutes so yes I agree his reluctance to slide the covers off was probably down to time constraints. Regarding my RCD, it is very rare for it to trip. It's been years since it last tripped. It's only trips when this washing machine is in operation and in the spin phase. I don't have many electrical appliances in my flat, but even when I use high-power devices such as an iron, kettle, hairdryer etc (2000w items), it does not trip. I know some people suffer from daily intermittent RCD trips, but that doesn't happen in my home. That's why I doubt the RCD is faulty. But as you say it's not impossible.

I really think the issue lies with the machine. Two different sockets  - and it's still tripping. Perhaps there's a tiny water leak or wiring catching. Maybe the leak is gradually eliminated as more water is removed - and that's why it doesn't trip on subsequent spins. Or maybe when the drum moves more aggressively as it gets ready for the spin, it clips something.  I've narrowed it down the moment it trips to the final spin phase of the wash cycle and the spin-only programme. So something is happening there to make it cut out. The wash phase passes with no problems, so I guess it can't be the heating element. I suppose the only way to find out is by getting the covers off.

I'm really tempted to test it tomorrow with a load to get a chance to capture the tripping on my phone. I just have this niggling feeling that I won't be believed with no evidence of the tripping.

I called Bosch today to book another appointment and the earliest they could offer me was this Friday with a different engineer.

They've offered to call me if an earlier slot becomes available.

I suppose once again I will have to wait and see how it goes.

 

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

Yes keep testing it with a nice heavy load and video the part where it trips. If it doesn't do it, put more water in to wet them again and try again. If you can get it on video it will be better, but even if not they have to accept your word about what it is doing and thoroughly check and test it or replace it - the only alternative is for them to call you a liar. Let me know what happens.

[Rollcage]

4 hours ago, Whitegoodshelp (Andy) said:

Yes keep testing it with a nice heavy load and video the part where it trips. If it doesn't do it, put more water in to wet them again and try again. If you can get it on video it will be better, but even if not they have to accept your word about what it is doing and thoroughly check and test it or replace it - the only alternative is for them to call you a liar. Let me know what happens.

I'm planning to put it through a full wash cycle with a few day's worth of laundry - so it should be a sizeable load. And then if hasn't tripped during the wash cycle, I'll follow it up with the spin programme, which should - going on past experience - definitely make it trip.

Will keep you posted.

Thanks again.

[Rollcage]

Hello Andy, just providing an update.

So I loaded the machine today with a heavy laundry load and added a bit more soap powder than usual for the extra clothes. I shook the drawer to make sure the powder was levelled out in the compartment and nowhere near the top of the soap drawer. I shut the drawer, turned on the machine, set the programme to Cottons 60C, brought the final spin down to 1000rpm and pressed start (twice). As soon as the machine started, soapy water started dribbling out of the drawer. I stupidly pulled the drawer out, only for more water to come out. After clearing the mess down the front of the machine and my floor. I left the machine to run through the Cottons programme. The programme completed successfully (with final spin) without tripping the electrics. 

So I got my camera ready and started filming. With the wet laundry still inside the machine, I put the machine on spin only, lowered the rpm to 1000, removed aqua wash and pressed start. I was getting ready to capture the cut out as this is usually when it trips (if it hasn't already tripped during the wash programme) and...it completed the spin cycle without tripping.I tried spin again at 1000, started filming and once again it completed without tripping. I tried the spin programme a third time - this time leaving the rpm at the max 1200 and it completed without tripping. I tried spin one more time with the rpm set at 1000rpm and it completed without tripping. So despite my best efforts the machine failed to trip the RCD today. Really strange.

Regarding the soap drawer and water coming out at the beginning of the wash cycle, this is the second time it has happened. It seems to happen if I put a bit more powder in. Even if I level out the powder so that it is no where near the top of the powder compartment, it still manages to overflow and spill out. It looks like it is a design fault. The water comes from above to sweep the powder away and as a result it overflows the compartment. I always thought the water normally comes in from behind the drawer and takes the powder down to the drum. I have no idea why Bosch have designed it so that water comes from above the compartment.

I got a call from Bosch today and they told me that they've got an engineer slot available for tomorrow - so I've taken it.

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

Make sure you use the right amount of detergent as described on the detergent packaging and make sure the washing machine is level front to back as well as side to side. If the washer slopes forward it won't help. 

[Rollcage]

On 15/02/2018 at 13:43, Whitegoodshelp (Andy) said:

Make sure you use the right amount of detergent as described on the detergent packaging and make sure the washing machine is level front to back as well as side to side. If the washer slopes forward it won't help. 

Hello Andy. Thanks for the suggestion; I think I'll just have to further reduce the amount of powder I use. 
Anyway, I had a Bosch engineer look at the machine (for the second time) last Wednesday. I told him about the intermittent tripping during the spin phase and the problems I was having with needing to press the start button a different number of times just to get a programme started. The engineer began by asking me about what (laundry) I typically load the machine with. I told him I typically load the machine with a couple of joggers, 3-4 cotton sweatshirts, and a couple of t-shirts. I explained that I typically fill the drum three quarters full, leaving about a hand's width of space. He immediately shook his head and told me that leaving space doesn't matter and what is important is the type of clothes I put into the machine.

He told me these new Bosch machines were sensitive to heavy load types and said that the laundry load I described to him was not appropiate for the 7kg drum on my machine. He focussed on the two pairs of joggers I mentioned, telling me that they were too heavy for the drum. I got the impression he was trying to suggest that the laundry load I described was causing the machine to trip the RCD. I found all this strange as I had described the same laundry load to the first Bosch engineer (when he asked the same question) and he told me it sounded ok.   

I showed him the footage of the start button fault -only for him to dismiss it. He told me it was because I had not the closed the door properly so the machine wasn't registering the door had been shut. I also found this strange because in the video footage I showed him I had not touched the door (it was firmly shut), yet the machine began its programme on the third button press. It was a completely different explanation to the "double confirmation feature" explanation that the first Bosch engineer gave me.

Once again, he got the the meter box and plugged the machine into it. He used a torch to check how it had been installed. He asked me for one heavy clothing item to test the machine, so i gave him a thick jumper. He put the machine on the 30 minute Super Quick cycle with the thick jumper inside. We watched the machine gradually work through the cycle. During this time, he returned to the laundry load I described to him, focussing on the weight of two pairs of wet joggers and suggesting I only load the machine with "light laundry".I really got the feeling that he was moving towards placing the blame on me. By this time, the Super Quick cycle was at around 17 minutes and nothing had happened. And just when I began to think he was going to - once again - declare the machine fault-free, it tripped the RCD as it was moving into its rinse spin. I felt relieved as up until this point I had absolutely no proof of the tripping. 

I asked him what the problem was and he said it was a "motor fault". He was about open the machine up to repair the problem when I told him that I just wanted the fault verified (this is what John Lewis advised me to do). He was a bit surprised that I didn't want it fixed and so he just left machine and told me that a motor fault had been identified. I asked how could such a major component fail this early, and he said it may have been knocked around in transit.
So he left and I got the engineer's report from Bosch the next day. And it puts the tripping down to a motor fault with the machine. I've since contacted John Lewis and rejected the machine as faulty. They've agreed to uplift it.  I've decided to exchange it for a last-generation Bosch Series 6 VarioPerfect 8kg washing machine (I've had to put £40 on top to cover the increased price). Hopefully,  being a last generation - presumably final revision - machine will mean manufacturing and design faults are less likely. The Bosch engineer told me that the machine I had likely only came off the production line in late November 2017, so perhaps there still some issues that the need to be eliminated in future revisions.

Got the uplift and delivery all booked for later this week; once again, I just have to hope it all goes well.   

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

44 minutes ago, Rollcage said:

 He immediately shook his head and told me that leaving space doesn't matter and what is important is the type of clothes I put into the machine.

 

If there is no space in the drum the laundry will just turn around in one big lump and have nowhere to fall and agitate when the drum revolves. That will impact wash efficiency and can even trap detergent in folds of the laundry. Having said that, some items of laundry will shrink when wet which can create some space.

 

44 minutes ago, Rollcage said:

He told me these new Bosch machines were sensitive to heavy load types and said that the laundry load I described to him was not appropiate for the 7kg drum on my machine. He focussed on the two pairs of joggers I mentioned, telling me that they were too heavy for the drum. I got the impression he was trying to suggest that the laundry load I described was causing the machine to trip the RCD. I found all this strange as I had described the same laundry load to the first Bosch engineer (when he asked the same question) and he told me it sounded ok.   

 

A heavy load should not trip the rcd. If it did, it should do it on the wash cycle. The heaviest strain on the motor is when the drum is full of water and it's trying to turn the drum on wash and rinse. Once on spin it's no where near as much strain as all the water has gone out and it's just turning wet laundry. At this stage the drum is much lighter than during the wash and rinse. Joggers should not be too heavy for a 7 Kg drum. However, heavy joggers mixed in with lighter items could cause the load to be unbalanced, but that should only result in the washing machine not spinning due to the out of balance detection - as described here Washing machine won’t spin just one item or very small load

 

44 minutes ago, Rollcage said:

I showed him the footage of the start button fault -only for him to dismiss it. He told me it was because I had not the closed the door properly so the machine wasn't registering the door had been shut. I also found this strange because in the video footage I showed him I had not touched the door (it was firmly shut), yet the machine began its programme on the third button press. It was a completely different explanation to the "double confirmation feature" explanation that the first Bosch engineer gave me.

 

That's ridiculous. If you hadn't shut the door properly you would have had to shut it properly before the start button worked. 

44 minutes ago, Rollcage said:

Once again, he got the the meter box and plugged the machine into it. He used a torch to check how it had been installed. He asked me for one heavy clothing item to test the machine, so i gave him a thick jumper. He put the machine on the 30 minute Super Quick cycle with the thick jumper inside. We watched the machine gradually work through the cycle. During this time, he returned to the laundry load I described to him, focussing on the weight of two pairs of wet joggers and suggesting I only load the machine with "light laundry".I really got the feeling that he was moving towards placing the blame on me. By this the Super Quick cycle was at around 17 minutes and nothing had happened. And just when I began to think he was going to,once again, declare the machine fault-free, it tripped the RCD as it was moving into its rinse spin. I felt relieved as up until this point I had absolutely no proof of the tripping. 

I asked him what the problem was and he said it was a "motor fault". He was about open the machine up to repair the problem when I told him that I just wanted the fault verified (this is what John Lewis advised me to do). He was a bit surprised that I didn't want it fixed and so he just left machine and told me that a motor fault had been identified. I asked why could such a major component fail this early, and he said it may have been knocked around in transit.
So he left and I got the engineer's report from Bosch the next day. And it puts the tripping down to a motor fault with the machine. I've since contacted John Lewis and rejected the machine as faulty. They've agreed to uplift it.  I've decided to exchange it for a last-generation Bosch Series 6 VarioPerfect 8kg washing machine (I've had to put £40 on top to cover the increased price). Hopefully,  being a last generation - presumably final revision - machine will mean manufacturing and design faults are less likely. The Bosch engineer told me that the machine I had likely only came off the production line in late November 2017, so perhaps there still some issues that the need to be eliminated in future revisions.

Got the uplift and delivery all booked for later this week; once again, I just have to hope it all goes well.   

 

Wow that was lucky that it finally did it whilst he was there. I hope you do a lot of washing though, these big drums are only economical if you fill them and therefore do less wash loads than before. If you struggle to put full loads in they work out more expensive to run and can refuse to spin some loads (as described in my article Washing machine won’t spin just one item or very small load). However, they can be useful for large bulky items like bedding. Just try to wash less often with more laundry inside.

[Rollcage]

4 hours ago, Whitegoodshelp (Andy) said:

 

If there is no space in the drum the laundry will just turn around in one big lump and have nowhere to fall and agitate when the drum revolves. That will impact wash efficiency and can even trap detergent in folds of the laundry. Having said that, some items of laundry will shrink when wet which can create some space.

This is exactly what I thought when he said that. I've always made sure to leave some space in the drum for the clothes to move around. I was quite surprised when he said that space didn't matter.

4 hours ago, Whitegoodshelp (Andy) said:

 

A heavy load should not trip the rcd. If it did, it should do it on the wash cycle. The heaviest strain on the motor is when the drum is full of water and it's trying to turn the drum on wash and rinse. Once on spin it's no where near as much strain as all the water has gone out and it's just turning wet laundry. At this stage the drum is much lighter than during the wash and rinse. Joggers should not be too heavy for a 7 Kg drum. However, heavy joggers mixed in with lighter items could cause the load to be unbalanced, but that should only result in the washing machine not spinning due to the out of balance detection - as described here Washing machine won’t spin just one item or very small load

 

I just didn't buy his suggestions at all. If the machine can't cope a few days of washing from one person, how can it serve for example a family of four everyday? I just really got the impression that he was attempting the blame me for the intermittent tripping. It was almost as if he expected me to weigh each item of clothing before loading the drum.

 

4 hours ago, Whitegoodshelp (Andy) said:

 

That's ridiculous. If you hadn't shut the door properly you would have had to shut it properly before the start button worked.

 

The video I showed him was just after the machine had finished its 60c Cottons wash. I had not touched the door and simply turned the control dial to the off position before pointing it to the Spin programme. I reduced the rpm, turned off Aqua Wash and pressed start. It was only on the third press that the machine decided to start the programme. If it really was the door, it would never had started. It just seemed as if the engineer was making stuff up as he went along to avoid the idea that the machine itself could be faulty.
 

4 hours ago, Whitegoodshelp (Andy) said:

Wow that was lucky that it finally did it whilst he was there. I hope you do a lot of washing though, these big drums are only economical if you fill them and therefore do less wash loads than before. If you struggle to put full loads in they work out more expensive to run and can refuse to spin some loads (as described in my article Washing machine won’t spin just one item or very small load). However, they can be useful for large bulky items like bedding. Just try to wash less often with more laundry inside.

I was very lucky that it tripped in front of him. I am certain that had it not tripped, he would have declared the machine fault-free and would have suggested that the intermittent trips were being caused by laundry loads that were too heavy for the machine to cope with - ie a user-generated problem. Before I finally received the engineers report the next day, I couldn't stop thinking that he was going to suggest that the motor fault was caused by incorrect usage or something similar. I was relieved when I finally got the report and it simply had "motor fault" down in the description. I don't know what I would have done had it not tripped while he was there. With no evidence, it would have been hard to prove I had a problem. I read the article you've linked me to last year and ever since then I've taken care to load my machine correctly and have used a hand's width / three quarters full as a general rule of thumb. And that rule has served me well - even with this faulty Bosch I have it has never refused to spin a laundry load (when it isn't tripping).

The LG DirectDrive Titan I had also had an 8kg drum. I just re-adjusted and did fewer bigger laundry loads. I had no problems with the machine refusing to spin, so I hope things will be ok with new Bosch. Even with a 7kg machine,  I only use my machine 2-3 times a week just to let the laundry pile up a bit for the bigger drum.
My original Bosch Exxcel that I had for almost 8 years only had a 5kg drum so going to an 8kg drum was really noticable. One thing I have noticed with modern Bosch machines is how small the porthole is. The one on this faulty Bosch is only 30cm wide. Not only does it makes the drum capacity look smaller, but it also makes taking laundry out a bit harder.

[Rollcage]

Hello Andy. Just updating the thread.

I got the new washing machine [Bosch Series 6 VarioPerfect] installed late last week. The installation (by John Lewis) went well, thankfully. I've used it twice since and no problems so far. I think the feeling that something's going to go wrong when the machine is in operation will take a couple of months to wear off as I'm so used to something happening.

I guess I just have to stay positive and hope this machine is good for the next few years, at least.

[Whitegoodshelp (Andy)]

That's understandable. Pretty epic story. Thanks for the update