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Rollcage

KENWOOD K714WM16 E33 Error

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Hi,

So I decided to finally replace my seven-year-old Bosch washer-dryer - the sound of failing bearings became too much to tolerate. I couldn't afford to replace it with another Bosch machine, so I decided to settle for a new 7kg K714WM16 washing machine from Kenwood. It's been exactly one week since I've had the machine installed and everything was going well until today. I loaded my washing and selected the "Cottons" programme and then selected the "Speed Wash" setting to cut the wash time down from 2 hours 45 minutes to 2 hours. I then selected the temperature (60 degrees) and final spin speed (1000rpm), and I pressed "Start". Unfortunately, after two hours the machine was still running. I could just hear the drain pump pulsing away, extracting water, and then drum turning slowly, before going quiet. This drain pump, slow drum turn, quiet pattern continued for a while. I eventually decided to go and look at the clock and it said 5 minutes remaining. I waited until 1 minute remained, and the drain pump was still pumping away, stopping, drum slowly turning, drain pump starting and so on... The programme was going well beyond the original 2 hour time frame. By this time half an hour had passed and the machine still hadn't go into its final spin.

I couldn't wait any longer and decided to hit the start/pause button. It paused and I pressed it again to start (1 minute was still on the clock). After a bit of drain pump activity, the machine went into its final spin. However when the programme ended, instead of the usual "End" on the LED display, I got an "E 33" error code. I decided to look in the manual and found this error code wasn't listed. I also noticed when I open the door of the machine the drain pump started running - while the door was open! I turned the machine off then on and decided to manually run the "Spin" programme,which lasts for 12 minutes. The machine completed the programme, but again, instead of the an "End" message I got the "E 33" error code.

I've done some googling and haven't been able to find much information in regard to my machine. I found what seems to be a service engineers pdf handbook for - what I think - is a similar Kenwood machine and there's list of error codes. Under E33 it suggests a fault with the water sensor or PCB. I am now really worried about what this could mean. The machine is only a week old and I've just come off a two week period living with no washing machine, which I found incredibly difficult. I've arranged for a manufacturer-approved engineer to take a look. But I thought it'd worth seeking some advice here.

I was just wondering if there's any way I can manually reset the machine's computer? - I could do this with my Bosch when it used to play up. Or should I just leave it to the engineer to sort out? Is it wise to carry on using the machine? I've just tried the "drain" programme and it completes successfully with no error codes. If it is a complicated problem like the water sensor or PCB should I just accept the repair or is there any else I can do as a consumer - since the machine is so new?

It's only one week old, and I'm already getting undocumented error codes. It just really gets to me as I am on a low income, so I can't easily afford to replace it with a better model. I just don't know what to do. I really thought after two weeks with no washing machine, the sleepless nights would finally end. And now I'm going to go to bed tonight worrying about my washing machine again.

 

Any advice welcome.

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Hello. It's extremely rare for a fault to occur on a brand new washing machine. Not impossible of course but out of 1000 engineer visits to a washing machine less than a week old I'd expect 999 of them to be an installation or user fault. If the washing machine gets stuck on the final spin and never goes into a spin that can commonly be caused by a badly balanced load (Washing machine won’t spin just one item or very small load). However that should be an intermittent issue. Have you tried it without a load inside to see if it finishes OK?

Another fault can be caused if the drain hose is pushed too far down into a standpipe (if plumbed into one). That can cause siphoning. However you should find it filling and emptying at the same time if that was the case. Water would constantly be running or trickling down the drain.

Also, the times indicated are only approximate and can change several times during the cycle. It shouldn't stick for a long time on one time though.

 


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22 hours ago, Whitegoodshelp (Andy) said:

Hello. It's extremely rare for a fault to occur on a brand new washing machine. Not impossible of course but out of 1000 engineer visits to a washing machine less than a week old I'd expect 999 of them to be an installation or user fault. If the washing machine gets stuck on the final spin and never goes into a spin that can commonly be caused by a badly balanced load (Washing machine won’t spin just one item or very small load). However that should be an intermittent issue. Have you tried it without a load inside to see if it finishes OK?

Another fault can be caused if the drain hose is pushed too far down into a standpipe (if plumbed into one). That can cause siphoning. However you should find it filling and emptying at the same time if that was the case. Water would constantly be running or trickling down the drain.

Also, the times indicated are only approximate and can change several times during the cycle. It shouldn't stick for a long time on one time though.

 

Hi Andy. Thank you for replying. I purchased the machine from a well-known retailer and it was brand new out of the box, so I was surprised when it threw up the error code. Regarding the load on that day, I loaded it with the following items: 4 cotton long-sleeve t-shirts, 1 pair of boxers, 1 tea towel, and 1 pair of jogging bottoms. It's a 7kg drum and after patting down the laundry before washing, around half the drum was empty. I thought it'd be a good idea to leave plenty of space for the clothes move to aid the cleaning process.

Do you think it's possible I underloaded the machine and therefore it caused a load balancing issue - which extended the programme way beyond its original duration?

Yesterday I ran the machine on its 15 minute Express wash programme (with no load inside and no temperature set) and it completed successfully with the "End" message displayed on the screen. Do you think that rules out any problems with the PCB, water or pressure sensor?

Today I've loaded the machine up with a lot more items, and as I type this, I'm running it on the 60 degrees Cottons programme with Speed Wash enabled to cut the wash time down to 2 hours. This was the programme that threw up the error the other day, so I shall see how it goes.

I just have one question. This is the first time I've owned a modern machine with long "energy efficient" wash times. When running a regular 60 degree Cotton wash programme (which takes 2 hours and 45 minutes on my machine), is it normal for the machine to just turn clockwise and anticlock wise ie "wash" for 2 hours and only start draining and rinising in the last 1 hour to 45 minutes of the programme? 

After the inital bursts of water at the beginning of the programme, the machine doesn't take on board any new water beyond a few occasional bursts (I think) and just rotates the drum clockwise and anticlock wise at the same speed for a good 2 hours. So my clothes are washed in the same body of water for 2 hours before the draining and rinsing kicks in during the last hour/45 minutes. Is this what the modern washing process looks like? I just think it's ridiculous that it spends 2 hours washing clothes in the same body of water. My machine has an A+++ energy rating. My old Bosch did the job in an hour (60 degrees cotton washing and rinsing).

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Hello Rollcage. Yes if the washing machine can't balance the load properly it can get stuck and refuse to spin. Regarding the wash times, that sounds about right. I have an article here about long wash times which deals with why economy wash cycles take so long - Why does washing machine take so long to wash? 

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On 13/11/2017 at 14:55, Whitegoodshelp (Andy) said:

Hello Rollcage. Yes if the washing machine can't balance the load properly it can get stuck and refuse to spin. Regarding the wash times, that sounds about right. I have an article here about long wash times which deals with why economy wash cycles take so long - Why does washing machine take so long to wash? 

Hi Andy,

Thanks for the link, I'll have a read. Turns out my problem was that I underloaded the machine. I've used the machine several times since and made sure on each occasion that it was loaded with a good amount of clothes. I haven't any problems since. The machine does its final spin and completes almost on time with the "End" message.  I've cancelled the appointment with the engineer. I guess I just have to make sure I put in enough clothes every time I use it.

Thank you for your advice.

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Excellent. That was my first thought so glad it was just that. As I said it is extremely rare for an appliance to go faulty so soon so it's most commonly something to do with installation or the way it's being used if one goes faulty in the first week. The underloading issue causing a washing machine not to spin is much more common on the larger drum capacity washing machines. For this reason I don't recommend them for single users or very light washing users as they commonly don't wash enough to fill the drum. This results in the potential not balancing so won't spin fault but also it defies the only reason large capacity drums are more economical to use. If you don't wash more washing than you used to wash with a smaller drum it's likely to cost more because the savings are based on washing less often but with more laundry inside. (Pros & Cons of different washing machine drum sizes)

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On 16/11/2017 at 11:44, Whitegoodshelp (Andy) said:

Excellent. That was my first thought so glad it was just that. As I said it is extremely rare for an appliance to go faulty so soon so it's most commonly something to do with installation or the way it's being used if one goes faulty in the first week. The underloading issue causing a washing machine not to spin is much more common on the larger drum capacity washing machines. For this reason I don't recommend them for single users or very light washing users as they commonly don't wash enough to fill the drum. This results in the potential not balancing so won't spin fault but also it defies the only reason large capacity drums are more economical to use. If you don't wash more washing than you used to wash with a smaller drum it's likely to cost more because the savings are based on washing less often but with more laundry inside. (Pros & Cons of different washing machine drum sizes)

I went from a 5kg Bosch to this Kenwood 7kg machine so the larger drum capacity is certainly welcome, but my thinking was wrong - I was loading the machine with same amount of clothes that I loaded my old machine with. And that seems to have upset the overly sensitive load balancing sensor. I live on my own, and I was actually going to go for the 8kg model at one point - thankfully I didn't. I've since adjusted my laundry routine so that I do fewer larger loads. The long wash times definitely take some getting used to (I don't wash below 60 degrees), but since I'm doing fewer washes, I guess it all works out. I've been going through the washing machine articles on whitegoodshelp and have found them to be very helpful. It's a fresh start with this machine, so I'm going to try to use what I've learned to look after my machine properly.

Thanks again. I really appreciate the resources on the whitegoodshelp website and here on the forum.

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Hello Andy. So today it seems the "E33" error problem I was having has returned. I loaded the machine with a full load, selected the 60 degree Cottons programn and then selected the Speed Wash function to cut the wash time down from 2 hours 45 minutes to 2 hours. 50 minutes into the cycle, I hear the machine beeping and the drain pump whirring away. I go see what's happening, only to be greeted by the dreaded E33 error message on the display.

I also notice that the drain pump is just going non-stop. I turned the machine off and opened the door to a puff of steam. This suggests that the machine hadn't even entered its first rinse cycle, so I have no idea why the drain pump was even running. As far as I am aware, the machine doesn't enter its first rinse cycle until the last 50 minutes of the program.

I really think this problem is isolated to the 60 degree Cottons program with Speed Wash enabled. I've yet to encounter this error when I've run the full 60 degrees Cotton program.

I'm currently running the full 60 degree Cottons program (2hr 45min) at the moment to see if it completes successfully.

Do you think it's worth getting in touch with an engineer again? It seems there is still an issue. I just can't believe that this is happening on a machine that is brand new.

Edit: the full 2hr 45min 60 degree Cotton program has just completed successfully. Surely if a sensor was dodgy then it would also affect this wash program. It makes me think that there's some sort of programming error related to the 60 degree Cottons program when Speed Wash has been enabled. 

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When it was pumping continuously and the laundry was hot it sounds like it had completed the wash cycle and was trying to move onto the rinse cycle. The timing of 50 mins in sounds about right too. At this point it should pump out the water then start taking in cold water. Three things can commonly stop it continuing.

1: Not pumping water away properly due to a blockage or pump / draining problem (if so there would be water clearly still inside the machine)

2: Pumping out the water OK but not getting the signal that the water has gone due to a blocked pressure system or faulty pressure system (Highly unlikely on a new machine)

3: Can't pull in cold water due to fault on plumbing / kinked fill hose / tap turned off 

I would be tempted to ring the manufacturer and report an intermittent fault with error E33. If the error isn't listed in the book then it's presumably not related to out of balance loading (which should have its own error code). 


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3 hours ago, Whitegoodshelp (Andy) said:

When it was pumping continuously and the laundry was hot it sounds like it had completed the wash cycle and was trying to move onto the rinse cycle. The timing of 50 mins in sounds about right too. At this point it should pump out the water then start taking in cold water. Three things can commonly stop it continuing.

1: Not pumping water away properly due to a blockage or pump / draining problem (if so there would be water clearly still inside the machine)

2: Pumping out the water OK but not getting the signal that the water has gone due to a blocked pressure system or faulty pressure system (Highly unlikely on a new machine)

3: Can't pull in cold water due to fault on plumbing / kinked fill hose / tap turned off 

I would be tempted to ring the manufacturer and report an intermittent fault with error E33. If the error isn't listed in the book then it's presumably not related to out of balance loading (which should have its own error code). 

Hello Andy. Thanks for the reply.

Yes, I think you're right,  the machine must have been moving onto the first rinse cycle hence the drain pump kicking in.

The machine was installed with a brand new waste extension hose (connected directly to my sink's waste pipe).  The thing is, just today, the machine, once again, successfully completed a full 60 degree cotton wash cycle. Surely if there was a problem with the drain pump or pressure system, then it would show up in this wash program too? Yet it filled and drained without any problems, before going onto its final spin and completing successfully with the "End" message.

I've decided to book an appointment with an engineer for next week.

Although, something strange did happen today. I normally run the 12 minute Spin program (at 1000rpm) after the wash program, and today it just wouldn't happen. The timer went down to 7 minutes and started climbing again to 10 minutes. I could hear the machine starting to spin up before stopping - this was happening while the drain pump was active. I turned off the machine and restarted the program several times - and the same thing kept happening - it just wouldn't spin up to 1000rpm. So I decided to take an item of clothing out of the machine and tried again and to my surprise it worked - and completed successfully.

The machine was loaded with 2 (thick) cotton sweaters, a pair of jogging bottoms, a mattress cotton valance sheet,  3 cotton long-sleeved t-shirts and 2 pairs of boxers.

Would you say that's an unbalanced load for a 7kg drum?

When I loaded the machine there was about a hand's width of space left, so I thought that would be okay. It was only after I took out one of the thick sweaters that the machine was able to successfully complete its Spin program.

I suppose the real question I have is: is it wise to always load the machine with an even number of heavy items? Today's laundry load had an uneven number (3) of heavy items, and it was only after I removed one item that the machine spun. I really thought as long as the drum was almost full (as it was today) the weight would be sufficient to balance things out.

 

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Yes 2 items is likely to be under loaded. Especially in a 7Kg drum. Depending on how heavy they are when wet it's very possible the machine wouldn't spin them because it wouldn't be able to balance them. The same load can potentially sometimes balance ok and sometimes not due to the random nature of how they gather and fall together in the drum. 

It's possible for a fault to be intermittent if something (like a small button) was jammed inside the drain hose or the connector at the u-bend. It can swivel and act like a butterfly valve. However, if this was the case then when the washing machine gives the E33 error (if it is caused by not pumping water out properly) there would be water in the drum. Bear in mind that laundry not spun would mean some water was inside the drum anyway because the laundry would be sopping wet. The difference between water caused by laundry not being spun and water caused by a pumping out problem might be difficult to judge without experience.

Try to recreate the fault before an engineer comes. If you can, video it on your phone to show them. Many manufacturers threaten to charge you if their engineer finds no fault and this can be a problem with intermittent faults. If a fault is intermittent then sod's law tends to cause it to work perfectly OK when an engineer comes and as they don't have much time they are very happy to claim no fault found - Repair company want to charge if engineer can’t find fault

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On 30/11/2017 at 12:18, Whitegoodshelp (Andy) said:

Yes 2 items is likely to be under loaded. Especially in a 7Kg drum. Depending on how heavy they are when wet it's very possible the machine wouldn't spin them because it wouldn't be able to balance them. The same load can potentially sometimes balance ok and sometimes not due to the random nature of how they gather and fall together in the drum. 

It's possible for a fault to be intermittent if something (like a small button) was jammed inside the drain hose or the connector at the u-bend. It can swivel and act like a butterfly valve. However, if this was the case then when the washing machine gives the E33 error (if it is caused by not pumping water out properly) there would be water in the drum. Bear in mind that laundry not spun would mean some water was inside the drum anyway because the laundry would be sopping wet. The difference between water caused by laundry not being spun and water caused by a pumping out problem might be difficult to judge without experience.

Try to recreate the fault before an engineer comes. If you can, video it on your phone to show them. Many manufacturers threaten to charge you if their engineer finds no fault and this can be a problem with intermittent faults. If a fault is intermittent then sod's law tends to cause it to work perfectly OK when an engineer comes and as they don't have much time they are very happy to claim no fault found - Repair company want to charge if engineer can’t find fault

Hi Andy,

Thanks for your reply. Sorry perhaps I wasn't clear. This was what I loaded the drum with:

Heavy Items

2 thick sweaters

1 pair of jogging bottoms

Light Items

1 single mattress cotton valance sheet

3 cotton long-sleeved t-shirts

2 pairs of boxers.

When I loaded the drum, I thought it would be sufficient - there was about a hand's width of space left in the drum - but it still refused to spin during the Spin programme until I took one of the heavy items out. I was just wondering if you reckon that's an adequate load for a 7kg drum?

Today, I ran the full 60 degree Cottons programme (2hr 45min) with what I thought was a well-filled drum, yet the programme overran by 25 minutes because the machine was fumbling around trying to enter its final spin. After it completed, I ran the 12 minute Spin programme, and again, it would not spin. The timer was going down to 8 minutes before climbing and hovering around the 10-11 minute mark before coming down to 7 minutes and repeating.

During this the the drum was turning slowly, occasionally starting to spin before halting. The drain pump was - as usual - whirring away in the background. In the end, I gave up, turned the machine off and decided to give the spin programme a miss.

The machine's load balancing sensor seems to be overly sensitive - it's ridiculous. Once again today, I thought I filled with drum with a good amount of clothes and yet it refused to spin. I really don't know what I'm doing wrong. It's incredibly frustrating; it's as if I have play a guessing game everytime I run the machine and hope it completes without any problems.

Thanks for the advice regarding the engineer. I've already filmed the problems that I had today, and I'm going to attempt to recreate the E33 fault tomorrow. I've got them booked in for early next week, so hopefully I'll be able to show them what's happening.

 

 

 

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It sounds like either the drum isn't being loaded too well or there is a fault on the sensor or it's far too sensitive to be practical. It shouldn't be so sensitive that it is refusing to spin on an annoying level. Under loading can be an issue, as can loading with 1 or 2 items that get particularly heavy when wet combined with other items that don't. They can cause imbalance. It does sound like it's doing it too many times to be a user fault but if you haven't already check this article out too Loading a washing machine


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On 02/12/2017 at 14:57, Whitegoodshelp (Andy) said:

It sounds like either the drum isn't being loaded too well or there is a fault on the sensor or it's far too sensitive to be practical. It shouldn't be so sensitive that it is refusing to spin on an annoying level. Under loading can be an issue, as can loading with 1 or 2 items that get particularly heavy when wet combined with other items that don't. They can cause imbalance. It does sound like it's doing it too many times to be a user fault but if you haven't already check this article out too Loading a washing machine

Hello Andy. Thanks for the reply and the link.

Over the weekend, I used the machine twice in an attempt to re-create the E33 error so that I could film it on my phone. I ran the Cottons 60 degree programme with Speed Wash enabled (this was the programme that was giving me the E33 error) and on both occasions they completed successfully - wash, two rinses, followed by the final spin - all completed with no problems.

The 12 minute post-wash Spin programmes I ran also completed successfully. On both occasions when loading the machine, I decided to fold laundry items in half and patted it down. I intentionally only filled half the drum, hoping this would encourage the E33 error to appear. But for some reason a half-filled drum wasn't a problem this time round.

Anyway, I had engineer round today. I told him about the intermittent E33 errors I was getting, and the machine's occasional refusal to spin. He took a look at the machine, turned it on and spun the programme selector knob on to a random programme, and I can't remember whether he pushed the Start button, but for some reason the drain pump started up, even when the door was ajar.

He sent details of the model to his tech support team (via an app) and on receiving feedback, told me that I'd have to wait for them to get in contact with Kenwood as they didn't have anything regarding the E33 error code in their manuals. But after a few minutes, he got some new information from tech support and told me that the error code means that the PCB has malfunctioned, and that they'd be in touch to arrange the repair once the part had arrived. And off he went - the entire appointment didnt even last 10 minutes.

I confirmed that I won't be charged for anything as the machine is under warranty.

The Kenwood service manual I referred to in my original post suggests that E33 refers to a water sensor PCB connection issue (although that manual isn't specific to my model). I just find it strange that a major component such as the control board can fail so early in a machine's life (it's just over a month old). No tests were carried out on any of the other components. The diagnoisis was literally just "new PCB required". Just interested to hear your thoughts on that diagnosis and if you would have done further tests before coming to that conclusion?

 

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Hello Rollcage. Many thanks for the update. Yes as I said in my first response it's very unusual for something like that to happen so early on. That's why most engineers will approach it assuming it is something the customer is doing or something to do with installation. If their tech support said that the error code means that the PC has malfunctioned that sounds fair enough. You can't be sure that error codes even from the same manufacturer but for different models always mean the same thing. You would think that any specific manufacturer would have error codes that mean the same thing for every washing machine they make. But it doesn't work out like that. Hopefully it will just turn out to be one of those things and be okay from now on.


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On 05/12/2017 at 11:55, Whitegoodshelp (Andy) said:

Hello Rollcage. Many thanks for the update. Yes as I said in my first response it's very unusual for something like that to happen so early on. That's why most engineers will approach it assuming it is something the customer is doing or something to do with installation. If their tech support said that the error code means that the PC has malfunctioned that sounds fair enough. You can't be sure that error codes even from the same manufacturer but for different models always mean the same thing. You would think that any specific manufacturer would have error codes that mean the same thing for every washing machine they make. But it doesn't work out like that. Hopefully it will just turn out to be one of those things and be okay from now on.

Hi Andy. Thanks for replying.

I think you're right. I think that I've just been putting too much stock in that service manual I found online, and perhaps I'm wrongly assuming that the error code table applies to all Kenwood washing machines, ie that there's some sort of internal standardisation. I read somewhere that for some reason manufacturers tend to hide explanations behind undocumented fault codes so maybe that's why it's been so difficult to find any information.

Anyway, things seem to be getting worse. I did two Cotton washes with Speed Wash enabled (yesterday and this morning) and both failed to complete. Having failed to enter its final spin, the machine came down the last few minutes of the programme and hovered on the 1 minute mark. It seemed to take on a short burst of water,  started the drain pump, and went silent, before repeating the process.

The programme just would not end. So I turned it off and on again, and when the door unlocked, I opened it only for the drain pump to start up (despite no programme running). The 12 minute Spin programme took a long time to start, too, with the timer going up and down and the spin starting and stopping. I had to restart it several times to get it to work.

It's just all over the place. I really hope it's just the PCB that's at fault.

I did a quick google for the PCB module for my machine, and it's out of stock everywhere with a delivery time frame of 28 days. I phoned up the repair company today, and they are still telling me the part should take 4-5 days to arrive. I'm just worried they are eventually going to tell me the part won't be available for weeks. The alarm bells are starting to ring.

The prospect of living with this problem for several weeks isn't something I'm looking forward too. I guess I'll have to wait and see.

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So I just thought I'd provide an update.

It's been a week since the engineer came round and the E33 problem is becoming more frequent. I turned on the machine today, and before I could even select a programme , the E33 error flashed up on screen along with the drain pump whirring away. It actually prevented me from starting any programmes for several minutes. This particular behaviour has never happened before. I've also noticed that simply opening and shutting the door (when the machine is simply on and no programme has been selected) makes the drain pump start up.

After eventually managing to get the machine started, it came to a halt 40 minutes into the 2hr Cottons (with Speed Wash enabled) programme with...the E33 error. Again the drain pump could be heard in the background when it had no reason to be on. I've just cancelled the programme and restarted it and shall see how it goes.

I phoned up the retailer today and was told that they are still waiting for the PCB module to come in. I was told that I'd have to wait until the 22nd of December and that there was nothing else I could do besides wait. So much for the initial 4-5 days time frame I was given.  I just feel powerless as a consumer as I bought this machine in good faith and never expected to be facing a scenario like this. It's clear there is an inherent problem with this particular model, and I have a feeling it is widespread since the PCB modules seem to be out of stock everywhere - even on the manufacturer's own spares website.

 

And it's just failed again as I type this. The drain pump has kicked in when it shouldn't have: 50 minutes into the 2hr cycle. The drain pump normal kicks with 47 minutes remaining on the clock. Today on the first failure it kicked in at 1hr 19min and just now at 1hr 09min.

Do you think I'd be able to request an exchange instead of waiting for the repair? I'm facing the prospect of once again going with no washing machine. It just shouldn't be happening with a product that's little over a month old.

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Hello rollcage. Yes I would definitely ask for a replacement. If this fault started just a week after delivery and it is well under 6 months old you should be able to reject it under the sale of goods act. The sale of goods act was recently amended to state that any fault within the first 6 months is deemed to have been present when purchased. Unless they can prove otherwise it is accepted that your washing machine was sold with an inherent fault which breaches the contract. Normally if they can repair it quickly I don't think it's a bad idea to accept a repair. However, you have now suffered enough inconvenience, with the prospect of being without the washing machine for another few weeks or more around Christmas time. I would definitely get onto the retailer (not the manufacturer) and tell them that you want to reject the washing machine and have it replaced because it was sold with an inherent fault and they cannot repair it within a reasonable time.

Check out my article here which explains that in more detail - it also explains that a further amendment means that you have the right to reject any washing machine that goes faulty within 30 days - Sale of goods act - appliances

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1 hour ago, Whitegoodshelp (Andy) said:

Hello rollcage. Yes I would definitely ask for a replacement. If this fault started just a week after delivery and it is well under 6 months old you should be able to reject it under the sale of goods act. The sale of goods act was recently amended to state that any fault within the first 6 months is deemed to have been present when purchased. Unless they can prove otherwise it is accepted that your washing machine was sold with an inherent fault which breaches the contract. Normally if they can repair it quickly I don't think it's a bad idea to accept a repair. However, you have now suffered enough inconvenience, with the prospect of being without the washing machine for another few weeks or more around Christmas time. I would definitely get onto the retailer (not the manufacturer) and tell them that you want to reject the washing machine and have it replaced because it was sold with an inherent fault and they cannot repair it within a reasonable time.

Check out my article here which explains that in more detail - it also explains that a further amendment means that you have the right to reject any washing machine that goes faulty within 30 days - Sale of goods act - appliances

Hello Andy. Thank you for the very helpful reply and article link.

I am definitely going to take your advice and ask for a replacement. I was initially going to accept the repair, but after hearing that I'd have to wait until 22 December, I just find it difficult to continue down that road. Out of curiosity, I decided to directly contact Kenwood's spares service today and was told that their supply of PCB modules for my machine is scheduled to arrive on 16 Februrary 2018. The member of staff stressed that the PCB in particular is unlikely to arrive before that. So it's pretty much a given that I won't be getting it fixed this year at least. I'm not going to wait until 22 December for the retailer [Currys] to tell me what I found out today.

I've completely lost faith in the Kenwood brand.Yesterday the wash cycle didn't complete, and the Spin cycles took several restarts to get going. And the drain pump keeps starting when I shut the door and open it again. Nothing should be running when a programme hasn't been selected, and especially when the drum door is open. It's clear it is not a minor fault and that I have a machine that can't do its job properly.

I already miss the days when I could put my old Bosch on and go and worry about something else for an hour. I've also noticed that several components relating to this model are described as "no longer available" across various spares websites. Coupled with the continued unavailability of the PCB, it just all seems a bit strange for a machine that's currently on sale. That's why I'm going to attempt to ask for replacement (similarly spec'd) machine from a more reputable manufacturer. I was going to phone them, but I think it'd be better if I emailed them instead - at least that way I'll have an electronic paper trail.

Do you think I should explicitly ask for some form of compensation or leave it up to the retailer to decide how they'll express their "goodwill"? I've never had to resort to anything like this kind of action when I've purchased a product.

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Hello. It might not be a bad idea to ask for some compensation but I would secure the exchange first. I personally would never buy any appliance from a brand that don’t actually make them. Lots of brands such as Russel Hobs, Bush, and I’m pretty sure Kenwood amongst many others sell appliances that they don’t actually make. They just get them badged up with their brand name and logo on. Customers don’t know who really made them. This often results in major problems getting information and parts for them down the line. It would be like Hoover selling cars with the Hoover logo on but they are made by Fiat or Kia etc. There’s just no need!


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4 hours ago, Whitegoodshelp (Andy) said:

Hello. It might not be a bad idea to ask for some compensation but I would secure the exchange first. I personally would never buy any appliance from a brand that don’t actually make them. Lots of brands such as Russel Hobs, Bush, and I’m pretty sure Kenwood amongst many others sell appliances that they don’t actually make. They just get them badged up with their brand name and logo on. Customers don’t know who really made them. This often results in major problems getting information and parts for them down the line. It would be like Hoover selling cars with the Hoover logo on but they are made by Fiat or Kia etc. There’s just no need!

Hello Andy,

Yes, I think you're absolutely right. I was originally planning to buy a Bosch machine, but instead chose to save a few pounds and go with the cheaper Kenwood. I've always associated Kenwood with food processors and handheld kitchen appliances. I really should have known better. And as you say that's why it's probably so hard to get spares for it. I'm planning to request to replace the Kenwood with a similiarly spec'd BOSCH WAB28261GB washing machine. At £319, the Bosch is £110 more than what I paid for the Kenwood (£209), but if that's what reliability and peace of mind costs then I'll have to pay for it. It's the cheapest equivalent that I could find on the Currys' website. 

My question is do you think it is wise to clearly state that I'd like to exchange the Kenwood for the BOSCH WAB28261GB, or would it be better to be more vague and simply say I'd like to exchange/replace it with a similarly spec'd machine from a different manufacturer, and then it leave up to them? I'm just not sure whether I'm explicitly allowed to ask to exchange it for a specific model of my choosing.

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Hopefully the fact that it's over £100 more might help persuade them to do the right thing and exchange it. 


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21 hours ago, Whitegoodshelp (Andy) said:

Hopefully the fact that it's over £100 more might help persuade them to do the right thing and exchange it. 

Hello Andy. I've drafted a letter that I'm going to email to the retailer. I had a look at the retailer's website today only to find that the Bosch machine I wanted has gone up from £319 to £399. To make matters worse all the other entry-level Bosch washing machines are currently out of stock.

My run of bad luck just seems to continue. I think I'll hold off forwarding the email for a couple of days to see if they replenish their stock.

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Hi Andy. So I'm going to ask for a replacement from a different manufacturer. The Bosch machines that are within my price range are still out of stock, so I was just wondering - in your opinion - which of the following manufacturers would you lean torward when it comes to reliability and long-term spares support?:

These are the affordable manufacturers currently available on Currys' website (I've done my best to leave out the manufacturers that aren't proper washing machine brands, eg  Grundig, Logik, Belling, etc):

Beko
Hoover
Hotpoint
Indesit
LG
Sharp
Zanussi



 

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If you could find an AEG within price range that would be better, but out of that list, if buying personally, I would probably choose  Zanussi. LG and Sharp are likely to have the least attractive aftersales service and spares.

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